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LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

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Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#261

Post by catlover76 »

wildrhythms wrote: post #232
catlover76 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economic protectionism is mostly just a form of socialism (save for those sectors where it can be supported by a natsec rationale). Me and many others are cool with socialism. Are you?

Socialism means worker ownership of the means of production; it has nothing to do with 'economic protectionism' by the state.

> Socialism means worker ownership of the means of production

Isn't that trending towards a definition of communism? Socialism could mean a lot of different things; economic protectionism is a market inefficiency designed to champion things like jobs over corporate profits, and was a policy choice made by some socialist governments in the latter 20th century.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#262

Post by defrost »

wildrhythms wrote: post #232
catlover76 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economic protectionism is mostly just a form of socialism (save for those sectors where it can be supported by a natsec rationale). Me and many others are cool with socialism. Are you?

Socialism means worker ownership of the means of production; it has nothing to do with 'economic protectionism' by the state.

You might want to read up on that.

Socialism is an incredibly broad term in practice, a typical sound bite dictionary definition hints at this:

    a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
So .. community as a whole, not just workers, and not even ownership is required, regulated for the general benefit (minimising polution, requiring power operators to deliver in 99.9% of weather conditions with a fixed cost ceiling) of the commons counts.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#263

Post by WalterBright »

cryptonector wrote: post #255
WalterBright wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protectionism means you're protecting inefficient industries. In a global marketplace, this means industries in other countries will out-compete yours.

What I meant is that in mercantilist world you do have asymmetrical protectionism, and that has real-world effects that require more thought than simply standing by the free market position, because it's not a free market even if you try on your end.

There are no perfect free markets. But the closer you can get to them, the more beneficial they are.

Protectionism hurts yourself just like trade sanctions and embargoes hurt the other guy.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#264

Post by catlover76 »

fullshark wrote: post #207
catlover76 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> LeBron James is also underpaid, at least his NBA salary. By what logic?

NBA has maximum contract sizes in its CBA. James (and many others) get the max contract allowed, which is why the best players choose teams for reasons other than money.

Ah, salary cap, forgot about those.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#265

Post by catlover76 »

leksak wrote: post #240
bogtog wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NBA has a cap on how much each player can make (around $50M this year). Lebron could be, say, worth $100M/yr, yet they can't be paid this. I'm guessing that there are around a dozen players in the league worth more than the max salary.

$50M is not underpaid for any profession, that sounds like a sizeable salary regardless of what you do or the sacrifices you have to make.

It's "underpaid" in the sense of like, if teams would pay him more in the absence of the salary cap, which the other posters kindly reminded me of, then his "true" salary is higher than his current.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#266

Post by jongjong »

Apocryphon wrote: post #168
jongjong wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the people coming out of those cushy corporate jobs are in for a big shock. What you're saying is completely untrue where I live (Australia). My sister in HR earns more than me. My cousin who is a truck driver can save more money than me due to lower cost of living in rural areas and access to cheap real estate (which is not an option for me as a software dev)... My dad boasts about my truck driver cousin's a…

Not to discount your overall point, but there might be differences in cost of living disparity between Australia and the U.S. that leads to those perspectives. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV7JPC2FuNs

True.

- Builders, truck drivers, plumbers and miners do get paid a lot in Australia. Miners are typically paid a lot more than even the best software developers.

- Australia's economy is founded on immigration and a constant influx of wealthy foreigners are propping up the property market which inflates property prices and rents... Especially in big cities where developers are forced to live for jobs.

- It's almost impossible to get funding in the software industry. The very few channels of funding available in large urban centers are extremely risk-averse and seem artificial. By the time you qualify to get funding, you already don't need it anymore.

It's a perfect storm. Almost as if all the economic forces were specifically aligned to maximize harm against software developers. I had actually left for Europe (which has its own issues) but after the big crypto crash, I had to come back and it was even worse than when I left because now there were many immigrants competing for tech jobs and driving down wages and those same immigrants also helped to drive up house prices and rents... Double slap in the face.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#267

Post by tiffanyh »

asadotzler wrote: post #259
tiffanyh wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When FANNG companies payout upwards of $1M/year/engineer - seems hard to understand why an employee would need a union.

When the NBA pays its players tens of millions of dollars a year - seems hard to understand why an NBA player would need a union.

The NBA is an extreme outlier case where even the NBA wants there to be a union because any single player can have drastic negative repercussions.

Theres virtually no other business that yields so much revenue from only ~10 people (5 on court players and 5 bench players).

If Lebron decided to not show up to a bunch of games, this would have massive repercussions for the entire league & TV contracts.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#268

Post by ss1996 »

berdario wrote: post #254
ss1996 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is much lesser 7-10x in big tech (Google, Amazon, Msft, etc). Big tech's Indian offices pays about 1/3 to 1/4 of what they would earn in the company's USA office. Levels.fyi will corroborate this. Yes, while the average software engineer in India might earn 7-10x less than in the US, this isn't the case within major tech companies.

Google L3 SWE in BLR: 36k https://www.levels.fyi/offer/4bb28696-b3a9-430e-af6b-87e139b... Google L4 SWE in BLR: 64k https://www.levels.fyi/offer/3631ce80-f5fa-41e3-bd22-192a98a... Google L3 SWE in Bay Area: 236k https://www.levels.fyi/offer/8cb64099-ffcf-437f-baa3-a88ae7d... Google L4 SWE in Bay Area: 260k https://www.levels.fyi/offer/4468e21b-6650-4e6c-948b-e90ea1d... That's a difference between 4x and 6.5x I think…

Aggregate for Google is $181k, $272k, $44k, $77k. So between 3.5 and 4.1 times.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#269

Post by ss1996 »

berdario wrote: post #254
ss1996 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is much lesser 7-10x in big tech (Google, Amazon, Msft, etc). Big tech's Indian offices pays about 1/3 to 1/4 of what they would earn in the company's USA office. Levels.fyi will corroborate this. Yes, while the average software engineer in India might earn 7-10x less than in the US, this isn't the case within major tech companies.

Google L3 SWE in BLR: 36k https://www.levels.fyi/offer/4bb28696-b3a9-430e-af6b-87e139b... Google L4 SWE in BLR: 64k https://www.levels.fyi/offer/3631ce80-f5fa-41e3-bd22-192a98a... Google L3 SWE in Bay Area: 236k https://www.levels.fyi/offer/8cb64099-ffcf-437f-baa3-a88ae7d... Google L4 SWE in Bay Area: 260k https://www.levels.fyi/offer/4468e21b-6650-4e6c-948b-e90ea1d... That's a difference between 4x and 6.5x I think…

Aggregate for Google is $181k, $272k, $44k, $77k. So between 3.5 and 4.1 times.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#270

Post by Daishiman »

hotpotamus wrote: post #68
rocgf wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, in my circles, most truly thought that this won't have an impact in the compensation levels. Always struck me as incredibly short-sighted and your comment is actually the first I see that explicitly states what I thought as well. There is still an argument that, if you truly want top talent, then that top talent might actually want to live in high COL locations like NY or whatever.

I've had private equity people tell me prior to the pandemic that if a job can be done from home, then it can be done from India. It basically makes sense to me. I know the common rejoinders about time zones (which ignores that there are plenty of cheaper countries south of the US) and culture/language, but I suppose we'll see if the FAANGs can overcome those issues; many companies have gone before in this regard. It…

But this doesn't make sense because there's been outsourcing for over 20 years by now and this is clearly not true. And having somewhat better tools for teleconferencing doesn't materially change the situation.
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