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Microsoft SEC 8-K: IRS is seeking an additional tax payment of $29B

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261–270 of 334 posts

Re: Microsoft SEC 8-K: IRS is seeking an additional tax payment of $29B

#261

It feels like if we just made these big companies pay what they should in taxes we'd be able to take some big steps towards health care, better schools, improving our crumbling infrastructure...

Nah, most problems are on the spending side, collection is fairly good...

Re: Microsoft SEC 8-K: IRS is seeking an additional tax payment of $29B

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The stock price doesn’t seem to be hurting pre-market at all. Big investors will have eyes and ears inside the IRS, so will have known for years about this already.

Are you really suggesting that investors run spy networks and that they spy on the IRS?

Why not? At least one church did just that.

Re: Microsoft SEC 8-K: IRS is seeking an additional tax payment of $29B

#263
post #228
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire point is that MNPI is a legal concept and information can be both nonpublic (i.e. private correspondence) and tradable for profit (i.e. material) and yet does not constitute MNPI. You're making the exact mistake that I've repeatedly tried to correct. There is no bad faith on my part.

Your personal opinion on what "material" means might differ from the court's (and also differs from mine, at least how you phrased it), but I can assure you, a $30bil tax bill is DEFINITELY material. It's a "legal concept" in the same way that every word used in a lawbook is a legal concept; the US is based on case law, and there is a large amount of precedent for this definition in particular. Again, refer to the Wi…

The SEC takes enforcement action in about 40 insider trading cases in a typical year. Most result in fines. Less than half of those cases get forwarded to the justice department. Big "egregious cases" of insider trading cases are practically unheard of. And that's not because wall street is especially virtuous.

Remember that agencies like the IRS, FDA, SEC must not leak a single bit of information (investigation/no investigation). Because that single bit is sufficient to profitably trade on. A hedge fund doesn't need to know the specifics or the exact date of an enforcement announcement in order to make out like a bandit. A tiny amount of signal is sufficient. In fact, a tiny amount of signal is preferred. If a firm knows for a fact that MSFT is in trouble with the IRS they can't trade on it. But if a little bit of information leaks from an agency, that's gold.

Re: Microsoft SEC 8-K: IRS is seeking an additional tax payment of $29B

#264
post #245

Transfer pricing is sort of just a pile of black magic. Microsoft's American business is required to charge their European subsidiary some "fair market price" for the Windows intellectual property, but what is a fair price for a license to sell Windows on the European continent? Unlike with fungible goods, there is no established market for this product that the IRS can easily refer to. In this case Microsoft is sayi…

Is this basically the Double Irish With a Dutch Sandwich?

A Dutch Sandwich sounds like two dry pieces of bread with a thin slice of cheese. I'd discourage MS from getting one.

Re: Microsoft SEC 8-K: IRS is seeking an additional tax payment of $29B

#265
post #245

Transfer pricing is sort of just a pile of black magic. Microsoft's American business is required to charge their European subsidiary some "fair market price" for the Windows intellectual property, but what is a fair price for a license to sell Windows on the European continent? Unlike with fungible goods, there is no established market for this product that the IRS can easily refer to. In this case Microsoft is sayi…

Is this basically the Double Irish With a Dutch Sandwich?

Yes it is. Microsoft routes a lot of its business through the Dublin and Belfast offices. At least now they have an actual office and a DC there. Previously, it was literally just a routing office. Apple and Google do the same as well.

Re: Microsoft SEC 8-K: IRS is seeking an additional tax payment of $29B

#266

No message about how greedy Europe wants to steal money from big tech, yada yada yada. Oh, it's the USA this time? Wait, does this mean that these big tech were really not paying their fair share and the USA was just slow to get caught to it? I guess so.

It's an American company that owes American taxes. What does this have to do with Europe fining American tech companies because it can't compete?

Re: Microsoft SEC 8-K: IRS is seeking an additional tax payment of $29B

#267
post #245

Transfer pricing is sort of just a pile of black magic. Microsoft's American business is required to charge their European subsidiary some "fair market price" for the Windows intellectual property, but what is a fair price for a license to sell Windows on the European continent? Unlike with fungible goods, there is no established market for this product that the IRS can easily refer to. In this case Microsoft is sayi…

Is this basically the Double Irish With a Dutch Sandwich?

Double Irish isn't possible as of 2018:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement

Re: Microsoft SEC 8-K: IRS is seeking an additional tax payment of $29B

#268
post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s why a scam startup is able to rocket as soon as 1 named investor signs on. See the juice squeezing bag company etc.

On paper it makes sense to have a microprocessor guide the pressure used on fruit and vegetable pulp [0]. Between that and the introduction of software to manage the fruit supply chain, the Juicero embodied Marc Andreessen's prophecy [1]. Unfortunately, they got the verb wrong: software is eating _not_ drinking the world. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juicero 1. https://a16z.com/why-software-is-eating-the-world/

Does it make sense to have an engine squeeze a pre-packaged bag of juice?

Re: Microsoft SEC 8-K: IRS is seeking an additional tax payment of $29B

#269

No message about how greedy Europe wants to steal money from big tech, yada yada yada. Oh, it's the USA this time? Wait, does this mean that these big tech were really not paying their fair share and the USA was just slow to get caught to it? I guess so.

Microsoft won't pay or at least not this amount, they are basically an arm of the US government at this point

Re: Microsoft SEC 8-K: IRS is seeking an additional tax payment of $29B

#270
post #245

Transfer pricing is sort of just a pile of black magic. Microsoft's American business is required to charge their European subsidiary some "fair market price" for the Windows intellectual property, but what is a fair price for a license to sell Windows on the European continent? Unlike with fungible goods, there is no established market for this product that the IRS can easily refer to. In this case Microsoft is sayi…

Part of me is like: 25% tariff, blanket, on everything unless there's an exemption. The list of exemptions can then be carefully curated. I don't care if it's 500 pages long for everything from honey to computer chips; but then at least we know that stupid tax stuff is unprofitable.
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