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The largest DDoS attack to date, peaking above 398M rps

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Re: The largest DDoS attack to date, peaking above 398M rps

#261
post #160
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A protection tax? You realize that DDoS protection costs them providers real money?

Yes, but cloud providers share that protection over all customers. Someone hosting their own websites needs the same level of protection just for themselves. DDoS is really the only thing that you can't host yourself on your own machines in today's internet.

I don't think they do. There are a variety of DDoS attacks which require more expensive computing to detect

Re: The largest DDoS attack to date, peaking above 398M rps

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Passwords are small enough that you can make physical backups easily.

Honest question, because it is interesting and might change how I approach backing up my passwords. How would you go about maintaing that physical copy updated? What I think would make this approach hard is that you would have to ponder if a newly created account is important at creation time in order to know if you should update the off-site, physical copy of your most important passwords (I say this because if you…

The lesson is not to "avoid" the cloud, but to not be "dependent" on it. Doubly so if the service provided is one that keeps you locked in and can not be ported over.

So yes, I feel comfortable with my strategy of having backups on bluray disks + S3. If AWS goes down or decides to jack up their prices to something unacceptable, I will take the physical copies and move then to the dozen others S3-compatible alternatives. I am not dependent on AWS.

But I am not interested in using Google Authenticator or Lastpass because that would mean that I am at their mercy.

Re: The largest DDoS attack to date, peaking above 398M rps

#263
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's exactly the problem, it shouldn't require a enterprise grade tool just to host a simple website on the internet. We've lost something due to our inability to stop attacks at the source and heavy overreliance on massive cloud providers to do it for us. 2FA and password managers didn't make us heavily reliant on massive companies.

20 years ago if a blog or website ended up on slashdot/digg/whatever there was a good chance it was going down. Scalable websites are a commodity today

That goes both ways. What was the price then to get a botnet with 10k nodes making 1k requests / second? What is the price today?

Re: The largest DDoS attack to date, peaking above 398M rps

#264
post #31
post #8

How does DDoS mitigation work? When people say "I put my website behind Cloudflare to mitigate DDoSes", what does it mean exactly? Is it only about having a large enough ingress pipe that you can weather however many Gb/s you are being bombarded with, and still having some spare capacity for legitimate traffic?

It is about that and a lot of other things, but it usually involves being able to dynamically scale up your bandwidth and compute power to cope with the incoming flood. A lot of DDoS traffic isn't actual HTTP traffic, it can be garbage targetted at your IP address to "fill the pipes" (bigger pipes help, as well as having multiple server geographically distributed). Some can be TCP SYN flood, to just open TCP connecti…

> it usually involves being able to dynamically scale up your bandwidth and compute power to cope with the incoming flood.

I don't think this is right. If you have a meaningful amount of bandwidth, dynamically scaling it is getting a connection upgraded in weeks instead of months. If you don't have a meaningful amount of bandwidth, you're rely on your provider(s) to have enough bandwidth and again, they can't expand quickly.

> Some can be TCP SYN flood, to just open TCP connections and exhaust available ports.

If you have a tcp stack from maybe 2003 or later (so excluding macos, unless they changed something in the past four years), it will have synflood protection, with syncookies. In the event of a heavy synflood, your system will send at most one syn+ack per incoming syn, and actually accept connections on the incoming ack. Yes, you miss out on detailed tcp options, but it's not that big of a deal, unless the volume impacts your available bandwidth.

Also, as a tcp server, you can't meaningfuly run out of ports; your one listen ip:port can connect to all ip:ports, if you have the memory for it. You'll probably run out of total accepted sockets, but there's no real resource limit on partially accepted connections, because of syncookies. It can be much more draining when DDoS clients actually hold connections. But it's often simply about volumetrics, and it's easier to generate a high volume of SYN packets than to hold a connection.

Re: The largest DDoS attack to date, peaking above 398M rps

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Privacy, long term, will mean the fall of civilization. I'm curious about your rationalization for this. Lack of privacy will also mean the fall of civilization. Civilization is just doomed to fail at one point or another. All things come to an end.

This was me being sarcastic. Of course we need privacy, not because we have things to hide, but because individuality can only flourish without constant surveillance. Yes! All things come to an end and that is why some recent philosophers think that Plato was naive to think it could minimize or erradicate society rotting. This is where negative utilitarianism comes in, where the point of society is not to maximize ha…

Ah I just missed the sarcasm. Yeah, and when the sole goal is to minimize suffering, tyranny is introduced.

"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Re: The largest DDoS attack to date, peaking above 398M rps

#266

Who has an incentive to carry out these DDos attacks? Why would anyone be willing to spend large amounts of money and develop a sophisticated attack against corporate cloud infrastructure? It seems like the only reasonable answer is foreign governments. But still what is the result - you inconvenience American tech companies and their customers for a few hours? This happens all the time, so clearly someone finds it w…

for the lolz

Re: The largest DDoS attack to date, peaking above 398M rps

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always thought it would be interesting to allow as a defense against a violation of a law to prove that the law is regularly violated without consequence. Because selectively enforced laws are just another way of saying you have a king at some level, the person who decides to enforce or not.

You have some control over this as an ordinary citizen. Next time you're on a jury for a lemonade stand violation, nullify.

Has a lemonade stand violation ever resulted in a jury trial in the US? I'm skeptical. In places that enforce those rules, usually what happens is that the cops tell the parent it isn't allowed, the kid shuts it down and there's no fine.

Re: The largest DDoS attack to date, peaking above 398M rps

#268

Who has an incentive to carry out these DDos attacks? Why would anyone be willing to spend large amounts of money and develop a sophisticated attack against corporate cloud infrastructure? It seems like the only reasonable answer is foreign governments. But still what is the result - you inconvenience American tech companies and their customers for a few hours? This happens all the time, so clearly someone finds it w…

My gut instinct is that this is a nation-state initiated.

Re: The largest DDoS attack to date, peaking above 398M rps

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not very hard to send packets with a fake source IP, especially if you don't care about the reply.

Seems easy enough to require (i.e. regulate) end-customer ISPs to drop any traffic with a source IP that isn't assigned to the modem it's coming from. This would at least prevent spoofing from e.g. compromised residential IoT devices. Are they not already doing that filtering? Is there any legitimate use-case to allow that kind of traffic?

Someone has to go and add the filtering. Nowadays (or maybe since ten years ago) most ISPs have the filter, but not the last 1% (or maybe 0.01%).

Re: The largest DDoS attack to date, peaking above 398M rps

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am pretty sure that protocol would be just as abused.

How exactly? You can authenticate sender by sending a special confirmation token back.

How does one get removed from the block list?

Say some IoT device that half of households own gets compromised and turned into a giant botnet. The news gets out and everyone throws away that device. Now they are still blocked over a threat that doesn't exist anymore... doesn't seem like a good situation for anyone.

I'd imagine that the website owners that want the attack stopped will soon want to figure out how to get traffic back since they need users to pay the bills.

Whats to stop someone from just making an app that participates in an attack when connected to public(ish) wifi networks and participating in attacks long enough to get those all shut off from major sites?

How does this stop entire ISPs from getting shut off when the attackers have managed to cycle through all the IP pools used for natting connections? (e.g. the Comcasts of the world that use cg-nat to multiplex very large numbers of people to very small numbers of IPs)?

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