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Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder

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Re: Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder

#261

Post by shadowtree »

smt88 wrote: post #115
shadowtree wrote: post #89

[flagged]

> why certain substances were banned in the first place You obviously have no idea why cannabis was banned in the US. It wasn't banned because of harm to individuals or to society. It certainly can do those things, but there was no scientific basis for the original ban. It was banned because of a massive propaganda campaign by Harry Anslinger, who fabricated evidence that cannabis was a drug of immigrants, non-White…

Why is it still banned in so many other countries?

All these children here with their US-centric view.

Bring some weed to Singapore, see what happens.

Re: Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder

#262

Post by tchaffee »

danenania wrote: post #179
senttoschool wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I wouldn't have been strongly anti recreational use if I didn't go through what I did. Extremely high THC products coupled with professional marketing agencies? Yikes. We're going to have a weed epidemic soon. Maybe it's a silent epidemic now.

If we have a weed epidemic then we certainly have an alcohol epidemic too, as well as an obesity epidemic, as well as a traffic accident epidemic, and so on. Making everything that can be harmful to some subset of the population illegal is not the way to deal with these issues. It's reductio ad absurdum into a totalitarian nanny state that literally controls your diet and makes you drive 25 mph on the highway. It's n…

At 75% of the US population obese and a cost to society in the billions, that's no longer "some subset of the population".

It's long past the point of "people with this issue should take responsibility".

If you enjoy weed, and I think that's fine if you do, you should be able to forsee a future where the weed industry in a capitalist system with few regulations ends up in the same position as the food industry: having created highly addictive and unhealthy products to the point of causing massive and lasting damage to society.

It would be better to smartly regulate early on and avoid the disaster and the predictable overreaction as a result. It is hard to smartly regulate. But worth the investment if you want to continue enjoying something.

And smart regulations don't require a nanny state as you implied. You can still choose to smoke cigarettes. But smoking has declined from 20.9% of adults in 2005 to 11.5% in 2021. Thanks in part to smart regulations and higher taxes.

At the very least we should be willing to tax harmful substances at the same rate at which they cost society.

That's not a nanny state. That's just fair. Why should I pay a part of your choice to smoke cigarettes?

Re: Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder

#263

Post by tchaffee »

aurareturn wrote: post #187
danenania wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we have a weed epidemic then we certainly have an alcohol epidemic too, as well as an obesity epidemic, as well as a traffic accident epidemic, and so on. Making everything that can be harmful to some subset of the population illegal is not the way to deal with these issues. It's reductio ad absurdum into a totalitarian nanny state that literally controls your diet and makes you drive 25 mph on the highway. It's n…

There are a few issues with what you're saying. 1. Weed has a mostly benign image right now. It has good PR. 2. It's much harder to realize that you're addicted to weed - unlike alcohol. Alcohol addiction is obvious to people around you as well. Not weed. Many weed addicts do not have the self awareness. 3. Weed can be significantly cheaper than alcohol per session - thus consuming more is economical for many. A few…

Alcohol addiction is not immediately obvious for many people.

Re: Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder

#264

Post by abrichr »

somsak2 wrote: post #229
ajfdsaaj4e4ea wrote: post #83

I'm terrified of seeking help for mental illness because certain diagnosis can have legal impacts. It is a sad truth, no one has a real response for it except "get over it", and it is very, very difficult to get support for political reforms to protect the mentally ill. I am also terrified the medications we force on some mental health patients, especially injected long-term ones, are purely for the benefit of the ca…

there's tons of self-guided resources online that are amazing at helping with mental illness that don't require you to submit to some person or organization that could report you. we need to stop seeing "talking to a therapist" as the only way to define getting mentally healthy.

Care to share a few?

Re: Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder

#265

Post by tchaffee »

slenk wrote: post #145
bumby wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m asking if their definition of safe means zero risk. Because that’s the same rationale that the WHO uses to claim alcohol has no safe level of consumption (I.e., there is no level of alcohol consumption that is zero risk). So either they think there is a level of cannabis use that is zero risk, or they have a different definition of safe consumption that they could elaborate on.

Any amount of alcohol increases your risk of cancer: https://www.cancervic.org.au/cancer-information/preventing-c... I don't think the same can be said for cannabis use

It's not accurate to say any amount of alcohol increases your risk of cancer. There is clearly a threshold amount and one droplet of red wine in a glass of water one time in your life is not going to increase cancer risk in any measurable way. The threshold amount does matter if people want to make the smartest choices and still enjoy life.

The same can already be said of cannabis.

"People who use marijuana have an increased risk of heart disease and heart attack, according to a large study led by researchers at Stanford Medicine.

The study also showed that the psychoactive component of the drug, known as THC, causes inflammation in endothelial cells that line the interior of blood vessels, as well as atherosclerosis in laboratory mice." [1]

Other studies have shown the risk of heart attack goes up in the first hour after smoking cannabis.

Prohibition doesn't work. And we need loads of more studies like this so folks can be well informed in their choices.

However regulations and taxes do work. Smoking cigarettes continues to become less and less popular thanks to information, higher taxes, and other regulations.

Considering how popular cannabis is, we should be funding more research so we can make informed choices, and at tax it at a level that recovers the actual cost to society.

[1] https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2022/04/marijuana-hea...

Re: Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder

#266

Post by tchaffee »

batch12 wrote: post #144
bumby wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m asking if their definition of safe means zero risk. Because that’s the same rationale that the WHO uses to claim alcohol has no safe level of consumption (I.e., there is no level of alcohol consumption that is zero risk). So either they think there is a level of cannabis use that is zero risk, or they have a different definition of safe consumption that they could elaborate on.

Yes, if we're dealing in absolutes, I'm sure there is a level of cannabis consumption that is zero risk for some people. Check out CBD.

Just as there is a level of alcohol use that is "zero risk". But that level might be one drop in a glass of water at meals, and a level which has zero pleasurable effects.

Re: Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder

#267

Post by tchaffee »

zoklet-enjoyer wrote: post #141
rapind wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> eat an edible to go to sleep. I could care less if people get high, but as a general principle I will never consume a drug to help me sleep unless there’s a really good (doctor consulted) reason. I think we’re just setting ourselves up for an unhealthy dependence when we do that. (besides weed always had the opposite effect on me)

I wake up at least 4 times a night and get horrible sleep unless I eat an edible before bed. Just 5mg THC helps me sleep through the night. I just started regularly consuming marijuana this past year and it's been great as a sleep aid. I've tried a couple of prescription drugs and they make me feel awful.

There is some evidence it interferes with REM sleep and stops you from dreaming. I've often wondered if the folks who it helps with sleeping have disturbing dreams.

You might consider taking occasional breaks. Vivid dreams are reported when folks quit.

Re: Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder

#268

Post by datameta »

M95D wrote: post #250

> Cannabis use disorder was associated with an increased risk of [...] They didn't prove cause and effect, only association.

Not everything is A therefore B in our body's homeostasis. Well perhaps completely overindulging it gets to that point. But I think the idea is the effect can be there even if overused slightly.

Re: Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder

#269

Post by bumby »

batch12 wrote: post #200
bumby wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mine are from sources like the FDA, WHO, and CDC.

Congratulations!

You may want to take some time to review the HN Guidelines

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder

#270

Post by naasking »

jochem9 wrote: post #222
naasking wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> have taken extensive breaks and noticed I am much more mentally resilient and less emotionally labile when taking breaks. For sure, but that's an association. Which one actually caused the other? eg. perhaps you got into a state of mind that was less emotionally labile and so decided to take a break.

That's not my experience. Sometimes I don't use cannabis for a while and feel fine. Then, while still feeling fine I unexpectedly end up in a situation where I can smoke a joint. Maybe it shows up at a birthday party. The days after there is a noticable change in my emotion regulation (less stable, easily feeling down).

There are other confounders associated with parties though, like drinking, staying up late, talking with people leading to innate comparisons with one's own life, etc. all of which affect one's mood. I'm not entirely skeptical of the possibility of a cannabis effect, just saying not to be too hasty in generalizing.
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