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Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

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Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#261

Post by RestlessMind »

mdgrech23 wrote: post #169
dfxm12 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The data probably suggests they should lay off a bunch of people & that this might be best way for them to do so, in terms of not legally needing to offer severance, legal issues, PR, stock prices, etc.

100% this. Employers know they can turn up the heat so to speak by making the workplace less enjoyable and more people will leave b/c of that. That saves them from having to lay off people. I think it's important to note layoffs tend to push stock prices down and that's what these folks specifically care about b/c that's what's good for their pocket book.

> it's important to note layoffs tend to push stock prices down

citation needed. Not my experience at all. Anecdotal example: META.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#262

Post by HDThoreaun »

hinkley wrote: post #6
sokoloff wrote: post #2

#disagree-and-commute

I have yet to work at a place where 'disagree and commit' did not devolve into 'shut up and code'. It seems to be one of those things that looks good on paper and is rotten in practice.

What do you mean devolve? That's literally what it means, no devolution necessary. First you disagree, then whether you get your way or not you shut up and code.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#263

Post by falcolas »

It's darkly hilarious how Amazon's motto of "Disagree but Commit" was originally about leadership bowing to the data and opinions of their direct reports, and now it's a cudgel used by leadership to shut down discussion from their workforce.

A shame, really.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#264

Post by RestlessMind »

manuelabeledo wrote: post #180
dfxm12 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The data probably suggests they should lay off a bunch of people & that this might be best way for them to do so, in terms of not legally needing to offer severance, legal issues, PR, stock prices, etc.

I have read this reasoning from time to time, but how does it make sense? Wouldn't most of the high performers who don't want to go back to the office, just quit and get a better job, while low performing individuals would stick as long as possible since they could keep slacking as long as they go to the office three days a week?

For truly high performers who are indispensable and a flight risk, the company will always make exceptions. But those are truly rare (<5%) and even among those, some want RTO, some want WFH and some want a hybrid.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#265

Post by RestlessMind »

LiquidSky wrote: post #250
michaelt wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the CEO has a wealth of data and it says with remote working Metric A has gone up which is good, and Metric B has gone down which is bad, they have to make a judgement call about which metric to rely on even though they're making an evidence-based decision .

Great, then share that evidence. The problem is all these royal decrees to return to the office never come with even a shred of actual data to explain them. Once it became clear that they couldn’t show WFH harmed productivity, their arguments became increasingly abstract (e.g., “office culture”) and finally we’ve arrived at simply “because I said so”.

Why should RTO need data? That was the setup until 2020 and it worked. Especially for the leadership who have grown up in that requirement. Onus is on the pro-remote side to provide data that that works.

Sample size of 1 - at my company, remote sucks even if we tried to go all-in on fully remote. I simply cannot have trusted relationships with my colleagues since everything has to be writing or is possible being recorded when on video. In person, both parties can share candid thoughts in person without any fear of being recorded for ever.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#266

Post by RestlessMind »

WhyNotHugo wrote: post #128

I find the push for "back to the office" one of the most astonishing things to come out of corporate America. We've basically been moving to a model where people can work from home for a few decades. We're reached a point where it's not only feasible, but it's senseless to do otherwise for many positions. And then, suddenly and out of the blue, a lot of CEOs and upper management started demanding that employees go ba…

> data has proven over and over that people can work more productively from home.

Citation needed. Not my experience at all.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#267

Post by reducesuffering »

manishsharan wrote: post #175
lapcat wrote: post #121

Jassy said the quiet part out loud and admitted what I've always suspected, that most CEOs don't have original thoughts, instead governing by groupthink: > Other company CEOs helped Jassy make up his mind too. Jassy spoke to "60 to 80 CEOs of other companies over the last 18 months," and "virtually all of them" preferred in-office work, he said. I bet that none of those individual CEOs could empirically prove that re…

The fear of an collapse in commercial real estate is driving these decisions. What 4 hours of your life each day compared to the well being of the real estate moguls ? I am staying at my job (100% wfh )and foregoing other opportunities in the job market as an extra hour of playtime with my kid is worth that much to me. The minute my employer changes their mind, I will be out hunting similar WFH job

That $1T giants care more about a $10b real estate portfolio than 2% productivity of their workforce is the biggest QAnon level conspiracy that HN supports which makes no sense.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#268

Post by jupp0r »

dangerlibrary wrote: post #209
jupp0r wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to break it to you, but a shortage of software engineers is what brought all these perks in the first place, not unions.

The five day work week has entered the chat.

We'd still have people dying from keyboard accidents in mine tunnels too.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#269

Post by Simulacra »

I presently work the schedule, and it's pretty reasonable. I'm able to better separate work, and home life, see my colleagues and have richer interactions with them, but really the benefit of going into the office is finding out what's going on. If I wasn't in the office for those two days a week, I think I would be missing good opportunities for myself.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#270

Post by ghaff »

RestlessMind wrote: post #256
Nextgrid wrote: post #253

From my experience, these kinds of hybrid policies with mandatory "X days in office" are the worst of both worlds. A mandatory "X days in office" means that during the office days everyone is running and on edge trying to do all their "office" things so you don't get all (or even most?) of the benefits of an entirely on-site company: "Culture" and watercooler chat doesn't really happen if everyone's schedule is packe…

From my personal experience and that of my friends in SV, hybrid with everyone in office for 2-3 same days, is the best experience. I don't have to commute every day. My team can do focused uninterrupted work on their WFH days. We can have team discussions, deep dives or 1:1's on RTO days which are far more conducive for the interpersonal communication.

In my experience, going into a downtown office for customer visits every now and then, dropping down to a couple days a week really does open up commuting options. The approximately 2 hour door-to-door time wouldn't be sustainable on a daily basis but really isn't that bad for a couple days a week.

I'm remote anyway and everyone I work regularly with is in a different city but if everyone/most people were local I really wouldn't mind having scheduled team days.

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