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FedNow Is Live

federalreserve.gov

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Re: FedNow Is Live

#261

Post by riskable »

rowls66 wrote: post #190
panarky wrote: post #100

The press release lists a few big banks like Chase, Wells Fargo, BNY Mellon, US Bank and Fiserv, along with a dog's breakfast of random service providers and credit unions. Since free realtime payments presumably would still require both the sender and the receiver to use a participating financial institution, instead of all participants just transacting directly through the Fed, how is this supposed to work if most…

There are already other options for instant payments in the US. The Zelle network and The Clearings House's RTP have been running for several years, and provide pretty good account reachability today. FedNow is the result of smaller banks and credit unions wanting an alternative to Zelle and RTP which are both owned by consortiums of the big banks. The expectation in the industry is that there will eventually be inte…

Zelle isn't a good comparison because it's not made for things like paying employees or other businesses. It was made specifically for payments between individuals and in fact, the big banks that run Zelle could very well change the terms to specifically forbid using it for things like payroll (actually, they might already forbid it but I'm not sure).

FedNow is good for basically everything: Payments between individuals, employeers/employees, B2B, etc. More importantly, the fees are so low it might as well be considered free ($0.045/transfer) which is HUGE.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#262

Post by Analemma_ »

hitpointdrew wrote: post #224
tjpnz wrote: post #149

I don't understand why FedNow and CBDC are such a big issue in the US. FedNow looks quite attractive from a fees perspective, especially when compared to PayPal and alike. Part of me wonders if the middlemen who stand to lose out might be trying to muddy the waters. It wouldn't be the first time.

> I don't understand why ~FedNow and CBDC~ BIG BROTHER are such a big issue in the US. Fixed this for you. I don't really want a gigantic federal agency having insight into every financial transaction I make. Hard, fucking, pass.

Are you under the impression that ACH, the thing FedNow is replacing, is free from government influence?

This is what's bizarre to me about the FedNow hysteria. It's not a government system replacing a private market system. It's a government system replacing an older, worse government system. It's like having a panic attack because the Federal Reserve is updating their PCs to from Windows XP to Windows 10.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#263

Post by colechristensen »

no_wizard wrote: post #96

Is there going to be a universal SDK / API we can use with this? This would cut alot of middle companies out of the payments industry (or at least put pressure on lowering fees). That would be a huge win. Wish we could do the same for the credit card companies. Would be great if the Federal Government could intervene in some way to have Visa / Mastercard / American Express / Discover use the same API interface for pa…

No. This is an interface for banks to settle between themselves.

A bank does not want to interact with you in the same channel as it interacts with another bank.

What there will be are services provided by banks which utilize this for instant transfers.

The middle companies between transfers you want. Most of the actual work is fraud prevention and dispute resolution... unless you want the only means of settling a dispute is through the courts.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#264

Post by bboygravity »

chimeracoder wrote: post #235
hitpointdrew wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand why ~FedNow and CBDC~ BIG BROTHER are such a big issue in the US. Fixed this for you. I don't really want a gigantic federal agency having insight into every financial transaction I make. Hard, fucking, pass.

> I don't really want a gigantic federal agency having insight into every financial transaction I make. Hard, fucking, pass. If that's the case, I have bad news for you about the banking system of literally every developed country.

Ever heard of cash?

I can buy an icecream anywhere in the world without anybody tracking me. Even with the "wrong" political opinion (even if I would be a trucker in Canada during certain protests).

I cannot do that with CBDC.

No. CBDC (aka: the ultimate totalitarian's dream) is not the same as the current banking system, despite the current banking system also being very horrible for privacy.

* All of the above assuming that cash will be banned and CBDC will be mandatory for everybody.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#265

Post by ArlenBales »

Question: Can this be used by a consumer to more conveniently and securely, and without 3rd party fees, sell things online or in-person?

Example 1: Sell a graphics to someone on /r/hardwareswap. Currently using PayPal.

Example 2: Sell car in-person. Currently go to bank and have buyer hand over cash to deposit in bank.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#266

Post by solardev »

fatfingerd wrote: post #133
gadflyinyoureye wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you might buy things the government doesn’t want you to have. Real meat? Nope. Religious texts? Nope.

Which government is that? Even Russia values religious faith as a pillar for misinformation.

China, notably: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_China#Anti-metaphy...

While not an outright ban on religion per se, there is continued state pressure against religion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antireligious_campaigns_of_the...

Re: FedNow Is Live

#267

Post by loeber »

ArlenBales wrote: post #265

Question: Can this be used by a consumer to more conveniently and securely, and without 3rd party fees, sell things online or in-person? Example 1: Sell a graphics to someone on /r/hardwareswap. Currently using PayPal. Example 2: Sell car in-person. Currently go to bank and have buyer hand over cash to deposit in bank.

Not yet for consumer banking. Expect this to get rolled out first for transfers between banks and financial institutions, then regular businesses.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#268

Post by bluescrn »

hrdwdmrbl wrote: post #232
bluescrn wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine being paid in a ‘programmable’ currency that your employer (or government) decides cannot be spent on alcohol, meat, or fossil fuels. Meanwhile, wealthier people get paid in ‘unrestricted’ currency.

A CBDC does not necessarily need to be implemented with that capability.

No, but big centralized power tends to crave ever more power, control, and surveillance

Re: FedNow Is Live

#269

Post by solardev »

dboreham wrote: post #161
solardev wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already use social security numbers for everything (insurance, credit, etc.). It's pretty much a national ID, just a shitty one.

USG has issued national ID documents for more than 200 years. They're called passports.

Between passports, SSNs, state IDs, your birthday, homeowner records, and metadata like addresses/phone numbers/employers, it's already trivially easy for any actor to fingerprint you anyway. Even the private sector does this for cheap. To say nothing of biometrics like facial recognition, which ironically, the government sometimes tries to protect you from (like in Illinois, where it's banned).

It's so weird to me that people are afraid of the government knowing who you are when like every private company asks for the same kind of information all the time, and data brokers gobble that up and resell it all the time (including to government), and nobody bats an eye.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#270

Post by imtringued »

rvz wrote: post #99
mydriasis wrote: post #2

> Banks and credit unions of all sizes can sign up and use this tool to instantly transfer money for their customers, any time of the day, on any day of the year. Whoa. Is this as awesome as it sounds? Is this akin to government-backed Venmo, or something?

> Whoa. Is this as awesome as it sounds? No. A possible CBDC rails in the US is nothing to get excited about. Unless you want savings limits and expiry dates on your money. > Is this akin to government-backed Venmo, or something? Yes, but even worse.

>Unless you want savings limits and expiry dates on your money.

I don't believe in saving limits or expiry dates in the sense of losing 100% of your money. But think about what impact limiting savings has on debt. In aggregate, there can only be as much debt as there are savings. This means if you want to limit debt in the economy, you are going to have to limit savings as well.

This is particularly relevant with debt brakes. A country with a debt brake but without a savings brake is going to run into a pretty fundamental limitation.

Savers can delay their spending decisions and this ultimately delays the ability to repay debts but since debtor's are at the mercy of lenders, we blame the debtor for the lenders tardiness.

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