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Cory Doctorow: Platform Capitalism and the Curse of “Enshittification” [audio]

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261–270 of 280 posts

Re: Cory Doctorow: Platform Capitalism and the Curse of “Enshittification” [audio]

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's basically just "if it's too good to be true than it ain't". Which was obvious for me from the begging for free video streaming, lower cost higher quality taxi, lower cost higher quality hotel rooms, zero cost but quality banking and so on. Oh, wait, it's not just that. It's also greed. Greedy customers wanting things without paying what they're worth, greedy entrepreneurs not wanting to grow a business steady, h…

Can we really say the customers are the greedy ones? I take some offense to that. Most people are just trying to survive with the options they're offered. If someone comes along promising a free solution to something i previously had to pay for, or even better, offering something for free which was never previously offered even at cost. By taking that offer I'm being greedy? What if it actually works, and it's free?…

>Most people are just trying to survive with the options they're offered.

I disagree with this. While this group certainly exists, there's a far larger segment of people that have a variable cost-return analysis eschewing towards rock bottom that inevitably lends itself to buying shittier products.

In other words, a lot of people are cheapskates.

You can make a stellar game app but even charging one flat $5 fee will absolutely tank your downloads because people would rather play hundreds of ad-ridden shitty lootbox gambling games for free. And what's worse, they'll even try to pirate your game for the fuck of it too.

It plagues food shelves with increasingly worse results. People don't give a shit about cage free, roaming organically grass fed whatever eggs. Sure, some do, but not most. Oh, Carton B costs 20 cents less than Carton A? Bingo. I just saved 20 cents. The eggs taste practically the same (they don't). But it gets them 90% there, and that's a compromise most people are fine with because they saved money. This trickles up to the producers, who obviously emphasize Carton A production now. Let it go on for long enough, with a little bit of poor government oversight, and you can even sell Carton A eggs as Carton B, and reap more from the suckers who think they're getting a better product. It's greed all the way around, and people fuck themselves constantly because of it. It's why we have laws and building codes and health and safety regulations. Society functions on setting the minimum bar for everything, because otherwise we devolve into chaos. And people constantly love to fucking limbo.

Re: Cory Doctorow: Platform Capitalism and the Curse of “Enshittification” [audio]

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Far, far more than that, now. The ability to organize your own feed via Tweetdeck is also being limited to blue checks, as well as security options like MFA.

>as well as security options like MFA. Incredible. I had to see it for myself. https://help.twitter.com/en/managing-your-account/two-factor... Maybe that's only for text messages, and you can still use totp?

You can still use stuff like authy/google authenticator so it's not as bad as the complainers say.

Re: Cory Doctorow: Platform Capitalism and the Curse of “Enshittification” [audio]

#263

I felt like I wasn't going to write this comment again, but here we go: I don't like the word enshittification. People glom onto it because they like shaking sticks more than solving problems, and Corey Doctorow is excellent at exploiting that desire. It's annoying how he enables that sense of defeatism when he's obviously aware of resilient and game-changing alternative software (like FOSS) that has revolutionized t…

(I'll say it again). I like the term "enshittification" - it implies a deliberate intention that is missing from degradation. And regression merely implies reversion towards a previous state.

Enshittification is a deliberate process: provide a (typically cheap/free) service, (dominate the field,) lock users into it, and exploit to the maximum possible in the short term, ultimately destroying the service.

Re: Cory Doctorow: Platform Capitalism and the Curse of “Enshittification” [audio]

#264
post #210

The internet is so lame and boring now days, its become so predictable and routine. I remember the internet back in the 90s and 00s, it was a completely different place, it felt massive and mysterious like each door you opened led to a another universe with all kinds of stuff going on, discussions on any topic you could fathom were taking place 24/7 all the time. Now we have discord servers with hundreds of users but…

This comes up frequently on HN and it isn't true. The internet has many more users than back then. You can still find your weird niche on the internet today. Just posted today, private blogs of HN users: https://dm.hn/ A weird search engine which skips a lot of corporate crap: https://search.marginalia.nu/ Or skip the first million search results: https://millionshort.com/ Then there's neocities, weird subreddits, 4c…

If there were millions or even thousands using 4chan the board would be moving so fast as soon as you found a thread to post in it would have been trimmed from the board. And 4chan is THE most popular image board.

I hate to be the bringer of bad news bud, but their isnt as many people online as you think there are.

Re: Cory Doctorow: Platform Capitalism and the Curse of “Enshittification” [audio]

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's basically just "if it's too good to be true than it ain't". Which was obvious for me from the begging for free video streaming, lower cost higher quality taxi, lower cost higher quality hotel rooms, zero cost but quality banking and so on. Oh, wait, it's not just that. It's also greed. Greedy customers wanting things without paying what they're worth, greedy entrepreneurs not wanting to grow a business steady, h…

Can we really say the customers are the greedy ones? I take some offense to that. Most people are just trying to survive with the options they're offered. If someone comes along promising a free solution to something i previously had to pay for, or even better, offering something for free which was never previously offered even at cost. By taking that offer I'm being greedy? What if it actually works, and it's free?…

> Can we really say the customers are the greedy ones?

The amount of piracy that occurs and the number of bad things that happen because consumers buy purely based on price without doing basic research shows that yes, the customers are greedy.

Re: Cory Doctorow: Platform Capitalism and the Curse of “Enshittification” [audio]

#266

Aside: Someone recently complained about the use of the term "enshittification". It first appeared on HN 6 months ago[0], coined by Cory Doctorow and has since shown up in over 400 comments. No point to this comment, other than that I find it interesting how these things spread. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34449504

It spreads because it's a political term that is acceptable on Hacker News (or, at least, I haven't seen dang cracking down on it), so those trying to make HN political are very enthusiastic about using it.

Re: Cory Doctorow: Platform Capitalism and the Curse of “Enshittification” [audio]

#267

A perfect example with the recent changes at Twitter: > Most Twitter users barely tweet and don't care about followers - a "heavy user" tweets on average less than three times a week. So if someone is posting regularly enough to be willing to pay $8 a month for a blue tick, but has not built up a sizeable following organically, this is a very strong signal that the posts they are producing are no good. > It is exactl…

People tweeting are not usually paid to post. Discussing the quality of posts as if entertaining people with unpaid labor is a need is the fatal flaw of social media sites. They keep pushing the narrative that posters should work for attention and struggle when winning in the current mold is albeit impossible without lots of funding or the specific attributes that make people overlook marginal skill and talents.

The truth of the matter is these platforms always invent wacky schemes to sedate people into a false narrative that they can go viral, or even that they can be recognized for their talent or wisdom, but undercover the platform does nothing to promote individuals, and often does a lot to DEMOTE individual posters on them.

If one truly understands how things work, these platforms often have millions of people as a potential audience for content. They only show posts to an ever shrinking fraction of 1 percent of that multi-million user audience initially (in between all the paid ads), often they barely do that and give users less than 300 views by an audience they know is not a good demographic fit for their post (e.g showing a post about penguin migration to a rapper promoting his music in LA, rather than showing the content to a known animal scientist who would be much more likely to click on "like") .

As a result of frustration with low views and limited validation/affirmation of their work and time, many users pay for ad boosting, which still now usually does not work in their favor, because the audience is never properly aligned with the content for viewing there again. Even an audience of 20k people on a platform of millions is measley. The platform has no interest in making users more popular, because they will log in less, spend less on ads, and possibly relocate their activities to another platform if they grew in popularity.

If you take an honest look at the type of content that trends, it's often not funny, not creative, not the best, but now it's there because it had healthy funding for ads behind it, to get it to the right audience that liked it (if it's not boosted by nefarious -bots= etc...).

The truth is, that if each content poster was exposed/promoted to a much wider audience, they'd find their niche, SIMILAR to how original Twitter was, this is why no one is getting followers any more,because the audiences who can view posts have become too small out of shear manipulation for ad profit. It's not about post quality, that's simply a lie that coddles wealthy and celebrity posters and maintains the status quo of limiting upward mobility on social media sites.

Paying for visibility on a social media service is far too manipulative, there should be a simple flat fee for access in my opinion because paying for visibility creates an inherent inequality. Deceptively promoting a service as free with tiers also deceives people into signing up for a service that is deceptively handicapped/neutered until they figure out they need to pay monthly for only slightly a less handicapped tier (still far below wealthy individuals and celebrities on each platform).

It's a self defeating cycle that only social platforms profit from. It would be better if content creators truly recognized that and saw through the others with tons of cash and the sponsored (undercover social media company employees) all faking their success to make these casino companies look legit.

Re: Cory Doctorow: Platform Capitalism and the Curse of “Enshittification” [audio]

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> enough to be willing to pay $8 a month you realize $8 a month is nothing to the majority of adults who would be in the "knowledge worker" category? a month? a couple of coffees is $10 and that's a day.

> $8 a month is nothing to the majority of adults who would be in the "knowledge worker" category This is a very US-centric take and almost insulting for people living in certain other areas of the world. In my country (central Europe, as is easy to guess), an experienced teacher (definitely a "knowledge worker" in my book) may earn about $10k per year. Not sure how much a beginner one gets, but surely less. $8 per m…

Not only that, the $8 might not be much, but what you get isn't either.

If everyone felt entitled to charge $8 for not much in return that can add up and mean real money even to US-centric people, once they're paying it to 50 different services every month that deliver (and ask) for "nothing".

Re: Cory Doctorow: Platform Capitalism and the Curse of “Enshittification” [audio]

#269

Isn't this just a function of a lot of these business models don't actually work? Ie a lot of these are the equivalent of giving away free ( investor funded ) banana fritters, getting decent uptake and using it to declare that the market in banana fritters is huge, but when you start to charge for them it turns our the market is quite small. Another way the business models don't work is the companies start off assumi…

> a lot of these business models don't actually work

It depends on how you define "work". They may not work in the way that the users were led to believe, but often enough someone got rich, and in that sense they do work.

Re: Cory Doctorow: Platform Capitalism and the Curse of “Enshittification” [audio]

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which company is this? I’ve heard this referred to as “reputation mining”. You buy a company with a good reputation, cut quality drastically, and profit for the decade or so it takes until everyone realizes the brand sucks now.

It is all over the place. The worst part is when you realize reputation is always a trailing indicator the only rational action seems to be to buy the cheapest one and use the saved money for the replacement. Basically, optimize your life around rapid disposal and replacement which makes extra trash and takes extra time versus just having a good quality item you can rely on. My mower recently started to rust out and…

I had this conversation with someone online. "X makes great cars! I bought one 15 years ago and it's been rock solid!" Yeah, well 15 years is a long time. The car you buy that was made this year could be a piece of crap. Who even knows? No one will know for at least the next 5 years. You just have to roll the dice and hope they care about the reputation - and check if the badge has been sold.

I also consider a few products disposable like that, but it's generally cheaper things. Non-stick pans are one of those, they work until they don't and I'm not going to baby them.

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