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First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

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Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#261
post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could have a million screens, if there’s nothing good on the screens what’s the point?

Most of what I do with computers is reading browser windows. Merely being able to do that on a nice screen is enough for me. I don’t want to or need to get directions for assembling my furniture. Heck, in real life, I like many people will just fiddle with the furniture and read no directions at all…

What if just not instructions, but instructions from the perspective of your eyes? Imagine an interactive instruction that guides you step by step according to your progress

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#262

At USD$3500, who is it for? And who will develop software for something with such a small user base?

> At USD$3500, who is it for? Everyone. It's a laptop replacement. Realistically this "Pro" version is for early adopters. There will surely be a regular/SE/Lite version in a couple of years for the price of a MacBook Air. > And who will develop software for something with such a small user base? Everyone will, if they're smart. Being first to market on a new platform is huge, even if it will take a few years to have…

> Everyone. It's a laptop replacement.

Can you build apps on it?

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#263
This reminds me of the problems I saw using Simula VR as a daily driver. Being able to spawn windows in midair at any angle is cool, but because of the odd angles it's not comfortable for viewing text. I'm a text-heavy person. The 4k screens per-eye might change this. Wasn't expecting micro-oled either, and I love OLED.

I don't want to spend time arranging windows around me at ideal viewing angles. I wanted the device or windowing system to align windows (at least vertically), perpendicular to my view. Straight up and down. I wanted to walk around them like phantom objects in this space, with silly stuff like the memory/resource usage and metadata about the window on the back of it.

What I really wanted to see here was a virtual workspace augmented by the physical space around you. I want to snap or 'throw' a window to a wall or a ceiling or tile them across my floor and walk around like I'm touring miniature golf. I'm sure the gestures and virtual anchors or snaps to do this will appear over time. 1st-generation woes I suppose.

As an alternative I wanted to create a series of nesting-doll-like orbs around myself, where windows fix themselves with equal gaps at optimum viewing angles around this orb and I'm only moving them around inside this sphere-layer, and up/down layers to inner/outer spheres. "Move to back" / "Move to front", etc.

Apple's probably further than any OS on preserving application state. Not just window geometry/placement, but application state. I want to put on these goggles and see 10+ windows "surface" from beneath the physical world around my room. I love the idea of my house/office being like the movie "Her" where it looks minimal and devoid of technology and putting on these goggles brings the virtual world out. Even just having dynamic art persist on the walls when virtual.

Further thought: I want to see 2+ of these goggles in action viewing the same content and applications and allowing for simultaneous/group/mesh controlling. Can I get 2 of these and have my boyfriend and I watch the same movie? Play the same game? I really hope it's something like wifi-direct or mesh networking for local AR stuff.

I think this is the start of something really pivotal and done with enough polish to launch the industry - finally. I just want more sooner, and I'm puzzled why they announced it so early if it's marketed next year.

Asahi Linux for Vision Pro soon? In at least 1 of the Apple videos I saw a window fixed to a wall. Linux needs devs that can build this AR/gesture/interface/compositor stuff.

I actually love the oddly buggy/bubbly design of the goggles. I like how they hid the cameras, and try to reproduce the face of the person, and the fade-in effect to show someone outside the goggles interacting with you. I'm really hoping the downward-facing cameras + sensors allow for speedy typing on a table surface with a virtual keyboard. I was so shocked I could type 80wpm on an iPad virtual keyboard when those were new. I love keyboards, but I want the movie Her with minimal/no tech visible.

They've got my purchase if I can play some reasonable percentage of Steam games on this thing. Vampire Survivors <3

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#264

At USD$3500, who is it for? And who will develop software for something with such a small user base?

> At USD$3500, who is it for? Everyone. It's a laptop replacement. Realistically this "Pro" version is for early adopters. There will surely be a regular/SE/Lite version in a couple of years for the price of a MacBook Air. > And who will develop software for something with such a small user base? Everyone will, if they're smart. Being first to market on a new platform is huge, even if it will take a few years to have…

I agree with your general sentiment, except with one small caveat. I don't think it' s a laptop replacement per se. It's more like an immersive glue that will allow your laptop, if you have one in the future, to remain as a standalone device, but through handoff/side-care/R1 it'll stitch everything together into a virtual environment.

When you take it off, your laptop, phone, whatever will still work great as normal.

It's a caveat because for a lot of people, I don't think laptops will be necessary in the future. My mom doesn't have one but is obsessed with her phone. Probably one day laptops will mostly be for pros.

But yeah, in general I agree with everything you said.

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#265
post #242
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first iPhone was pretty crappy. No apps. 2G only. Poor battery life. Limited global distribution - not even Canada could get it. But it captivated people who didn’t own it yet, and it proved out some essential ideas like multitouch. And when the iPhone 3G came out, improving on some of the original device’s shortcomings, it was wildly popular. The rest is history. There is no doubt that AR will eventually get goo…

The first iphone let you have a real web browser anywhere you had cell coverage. This lets you have a web browser floating at home. Its not the same (and I love VR)

I didn’t get one until the 3G came out, but I have a very clear memory of the “wow!” feeling: right after buying the phone, I went down the street to a coffee shop and started browsing the web while waiting in line. I was instantly cured of my prior skepticism that it could actually be a major improvement over my flip phone + iPod.

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#266
post #234

> Namely, 5,000 patents filed over the past few years and an enormous base of talent and capital to work with. It was mentionned in the keynote as well...should Apple really brag about their patent minefield in a field that is in need of more players and more efforts to push it forward ? > In many cases it literally hurt to do so. Not with the Apple Vision Pro – text is super crisp and legible at all sizes and at far…

The patent brag isn’t a first for Apple though. Steve Jobs himself during the first iPhone presentation bragged “oh boy we’ve patented it” about multitouch technology.

IIRC that was only half-true since multitouch existed before the iPhone. Don't know the details though.

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#267
post #211

I don't understand why there is no AR or VR killer app for this thing. Their sales pitch was "it makes it amazing to read articles in safari"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYkq9Rgoj8E&t=5410s $3500 to... look at a floating web browser? Surely they can come up with something. Give me UV/IR vision, let me see the pipes under the ground, show me how to assemble the furniture I'm looking at, give me a template to pain…

The first iPhone was pretty crappy. No apps. 2G only. Poor battery life. Limited global distribution - not even Canada could get it. But it captivated people who didn’t own it yet, and it proved out some essential ideas like multitouch. And when the iPhone 3G came out, improving on some of the original device’s shortcomings, it was wildly popular. The rest is history. There is no doubt that AR will eventually get goo…

First iphone had this WOW effect, before there were clunky crappy Microsoft-OS powered boxes with pens and crappy slow imprecise displays. I recall, I had one, it was a massive shift and basically a new type of device.

This... judging by extremely careful wording of a web which needs to play very very nice with vendors to get these early access peeks, seems to not have it. More like nicely polished hammer looking for nails everywhere. Yes, many aspects fine tuned above competition, but competition is not asleep and the gap is not that big. In some aspects, it will be objectively worse (constant powerbank cable which lasts barely 2 hours, realistically a bit above 1 hour breaks immersion very effectively compared to ie Quest, plus you want to have 4 powerbanks and furiously swapping over one longer evening? Not even going into sharing ultra expensive device with rest of household).

Phones are absolute must in modern world, they were already 90% there when first iphone arrived. VR/AR goggles are still considered idiotic by majority of population, maybe Apple can change that but it will take few years at least.

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#268
post #157

Interesting to see hardly any comments on the 2hr battery life. I think any other company would get roasted on that.

It's an external battery anyway, so you can use an arbitrarily large battery or multiple backup batteries. It's not really a problem, but the battery being external is.

If you swap the battery does the device shut down?

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#269
post #211

I don't understand why there is no AR or VR killer app for this thing. Their sales pitch was "it makes it amazing to read articles in safari"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYkq9Rgoj8E&t=5410s $3500 to... look at a floating web browser? Surely they can come up with something. Give me UV/IR vision, let me see the pipes under the ground, show me how to assemble the furniture I'm looking at, give me a template to pain…

The first iPhone was pretty crappy. No apps. 2G only. Poor battery life. Limited global distribution - not even Canada could get it. But it captivated people who didn’t own it yet, and it proved out some essential ideas like multitouch. And when the iPhone 3G came out, improving on some of the original device’s shortcomings, it was wildly popular. The rest is history. There is no doubt that AR will eventually get goo…

The first iPhone was an iPod that could make phone calls; that was all it needed to be (for the people who were already carrying a phone and an iPod).

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#270
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For comparison the top of the line PSVR2 does 2K per eye, hooked up to basically a PC made for gaming

Different market, I think. The PSVR2 is aimed at gaming where resolution matters less but the demands on graphics hardware to push that resolution are much higher because they're rendering complex scenes with fancy visual effects and fast motion, all on a console that's limited in graphics power compared to higher-end gaming PCs. Projecting mostly flat windows with little overdraw is much less graphically demanding;…

Yeah, I actually wonder if 4k ends up being as good as it sounds in practice for the use-cases Apple are pushing.

A 27" 4k monitor in real life should look better than a virtual 27" window pushing the same resolution within the 4k display of the headset. For stuff like text that's going to have a corresponding loss in sharpness, and because you could be seeing something at an angle there's going to be lots of weird aliasing effects. There's a reason why Apple starting pushing 5k monitors.

I'd guess the tech would need to get to 8k+ for each eye before it starts feeling "really good" for these use cases.

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