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High prices make textbook ‘piracy’ acceptable to most students

torrentfreak.com

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Re: High prices make textbook ‘piracy’ acceptable to most students

#261

Post by xp84 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #205
LanceH wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Freshman year, first semester, I paid $1100 for books, and then we only actually used one of them more than slightly. This really bothers me. Universities hold themselves up as virtuous. Then students hire them to provide to provide an education. Instead of being agents for the students, the students are instead treated like a captive market. There is a very real conflict of interest in universities profiting off t…

> Then you get required to take an ethics class as part of your degree My state university ethics professor published their own book, and required an extra-credit assignment be turned in from a tear out at the end of the book.

I hope this is parody

Re: High prices make textbook ‘piracy’ acceptable to most students

#262

Post by xp84 »

aaplok wrote: post #213
LanceH wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Freshman year, first semester, I paid $1100 for books, and then we only actually used one of them more than slightly. This really bothers me. Universities hold themselves up as virtuous. Then students hire them to provide to provide an education. Instead of being agents for the students, the students are instead treated like a captive market. There is a very real conflict of interest in universities profiting off t…

I'm not sure lecturers profit off textbooks. What you are witnessing is more likely indifference and hubris from the academics than a deliberate strategy to extract more money out of students. This doesn't make it less unethical, but unless it's a textbook they themselves authored, it's probably not a conflict of interest.

It’s in the interest of all professors collectively (including those who hope to be real professors someday) to prop up the problematic idea that a book ought to cost $400+ just because it’s a textbook, because professors write textbooks, no one involved in selecting books or publishing them has any incentive to keep the costs reasonable.

Re: High prices make textbook ‘piracy’ acceptable to most students

#263

Post by hdb73hdhheu »

Jiro wrote: post #217
eli_gottlieb wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Administrators, to stop us academics from doing our jobs too productively. >That pretty much answers the question of why we don’t have teleportation devices or antigravity shoes. Common sense suggests that if you want to maximize scientific creativity, you find some bright people, give them the resources they need to pursue whatever idea comes into their heads, and then leave them alone. Most will turn up nothing, bu…

We don't have teleportation devices or antigravity shoes because making those things is not possible, and you can't make impossible things possible by throwing money at them. And of course this becomes worse if you're using other people's money. If you're throwing your own money at an impossible task, you'll run out (or your investors will run out). If you're collecting the money as taxes and then throwing it at the…

[dead]

Re: High prices make textbook ‘piracy’ acceptable to most students

#264

Post by susiecambria »

drowsspa wrote: post #200
r9550684 wrote: post #156

I came to America poor, and went straight to a public university, on scholarship and no money to even pay for food (grad seminars and special events with free sandwiches and pizza is how I learned about things like quaternions as an undergrad). But as an eastern European hacker, i had a complete disregard of copyright, I also grew up in the 90s when hacker ethos included strong anti-authoritarian elements. No way I w…

Oh man, back in my university it was the teachers themselves who provided the pirated materials. In Humanities it was the full scanned books, in STEM at least they always scanned at least the exercises so it wouldn't be necessary to get the specific edition.

The only course packet I can remember buying in grad school (social work at Howard) was for data (which makes me chuckle given where I'm posting this). The packet had a ton of articles and that material was in addition to a text book or two, as I recall.

Re: High prices make textbook ‘piracy’ acceptable to most students

#265

Post by miked85 »

ehvatum wrote: post #187
Firmwarrior wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's complete bullshit You can now comfortably afford to hire a staff of PhD students to tutor you 1on1 in every subject you want to learn more cheaply than going to a university. So where the FUCK is all that money going?

> So where the FUCK is all that money going? Please be aware that higher education is a massive dumping ground for the lowest-performing segment of the politically-connected managerial class, who are too cowardly and lazy to run for elected office, and too stupid and impulsive to make it in industry. Academia is perfect, for them: a gigantic stage for demonstrating moral superiority and hiring friends, with no fundam…

Totally agree. I only had one professor who had any idea how things work in the industry, and she went back to it within a couple years. I'm not saying there's no value at a university, but most of it is a waste of time and money.

Re: High prices make textbook ‘piracy’ acceptable to most students

#266

Post by wly_cdgr »

It's hardly news that most people find it easy to justify all kinds of lying, cheating, and stealing to themselves. To be charitable, young people are usually too oblivious/ignorant to fully appreciate why what they are doing is wrong, and there is also a ton of peer pressure to steal and cheat.

Re: High prices make textbook ‘piracy’ acceptable to most students

#267

Post by dotancohen »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #205
LanceH wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Freshman year, first semester, I paid $1100 for books, and then we only actually used one of them more than slightly. This really bothers me. Universities hold themselves up as virtuous. Then students hire them to provide to provide an education. Instead of being agents for the students, the students are instead treated like a captive market. There is a very real conflict of interest in universities profiting off t…

> Then you get required to take an ethics class as part of your degree My state university ethics professor published their own book, and required an extra-credit assignment be turned in from a tear out at the end of the book.

Sounds like a lesson you will never forget - and you even share it with other people. In a sense, that is a good lesson and a job well done by the professor.

Re: High prices make textbook ‘piracy’ acceptable to most students

#268

Post by pxx »

NeoTar wrote: post #210
xur17 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love for this to be a standard across ALL pricing, not just tuition. Any costs that I am required to pay should be put into the base price that is advertised.

The European Union broadly believes in this and to my understanding the situation is broadly 'better' here than in North America. E.g. If I shop for plane tickets and I see a flight advertised for, say, 92 EUR I know that the price includes all taxes (sales taxes and airport taxes). Credit-card processing fees are (I think) no longer permitted. It's not a perfect system - there are still the 'optional' extras (hold-b…

You might have chosen the worst example; the US regulations at ticket time are better for the customer.

The US "DOT requires airlines and travel agencies that display ticket prices to advertise the total price that a consumer must pay to purchase a ticket. Wherever an airfare is advertised, such as on a website, in an email, or during the booking process, the fare price must include all applicable government taxes and fees, and any mandatory carrier-imposed surcharges." Furthermore, if you're buying a ticket with an US segment 7 days or more from departure directly from an airline, the airline must typically "allow passengers to cancel their reservation within 24 hours and receive a full refund without a penalty."* This is something not afforded to customers on an intra-Europe flight.

https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer...

*They can also offer a 24 hour hold free of charge, but the only airline that I know of that opts for this still allows the 24 hour cancel even after the hold.

Re: High prices make textbook ‘piracy’ acceptable to most students

#270

Post by artursapek »

Firmwarrior wrote: post #175
LanceH wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Freshman year, first semester, I paid $1100 for books, and then we only actually used one of them more than slightly. This really bothers me. Universities hold themselves up as virtuous. Then students hire them to provide to provide an education. Instead of being agents for the students, the students are instead treated like a captive market. There is a very real conflict of interest in universities profiting off t…

It's complete bullshit You can now comfortably afford to hire a staff of PhD students to tutor you 1on1 in every subject you want to learn more cheaply than going to a university. So where the FUCK is all that money going?

Many big universities are basically hedge funds disguised as schools, these days
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