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Farmland practices are driving bird population decline across Europe

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Re: Farmland practices are driving bird population decline across Europe

#261

Post by myshpa »

danielheath wrote: post #258
myshpa wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pag in Croatia too ... it's called "island of paski cheese" iirc ... it's mostly rocky desert with patches of grass and herds of islands and goats, but leave the island and suddenly the landscape is green and lush. "Historically, Pag had more forested areas than it does today. The island used to be covered with oak and pine forests, but due to centuries of human activity, including grazing, deforestation, and the col…

> The land is rocky to grow anything on exactly because of those lambs and goats. Are you suggesting that ruminants transport rocks to the site?

Ruminants deplete the vegetation on the land, leading to erosion caused by wind and water, which gradually erodes the top layer of soil, leaving behind only large rocks.

Re: Farmland practices are driving bird population decline across Europe

#262

Post by danielheath »

myshpa wrote: post #261
danielheath wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The land is rocky to grow anything on exactly because of those lambs and goats. Are you suggesting that ruminants transport rocks to the site?

Ruminants deplete the vegetation on the land, leading to erosion caused by wind and water, which gradually erodes the top layer of soil, leaving behind only large rocks.

There are ruminants in plenty of other places without the land becoming inhospitable to most plants, though, so that's not a sufficient explanation (although I can clearly see how it contributes).

Re: Farmland practices are driving bird population decline across Europe

#263

Post by myshpa »

danielheath wrote: post #262
myshpa wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ruminants deplete the vegetation on the land, leading to erosion caused by wind and water, which gradually erodes the top layer of soil, leaving behind only large rocks.

There are ruminants in plenty of other places without the land becoming inhospitable to most plants, though, so that's not a sufficient explanation (although I can clearly see how it contributes).

My previous comment:

"including grazing, deforestation, and the collection of firewood"

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316721412_Blame_it_...

"The authors analyze archaeological and ecological evidence to understand the relationship between human populations, goat herding, and land degradation. They argue that the widespread adoption of goat herding practices played a significant role in the process of desertification. Goats are known to be browsers, preferring to consume a variety of vegetation, including shrubs and trees. This selective feeding behavior, combined with the increasing human population and expansion of agricultural practices, led to the overgrazing of vegetation and subsequent soil erosion.

The paper highlights that the degradation of vegetation cover and loss of soil fertility had cascading effects on the ecosystem. Reduced vegetation cover resulted in increased exposure of soil to wind and water erosion, leading to the expansion of arid and desert regions. The loss of vegetation also had a detrimental impact on biodiversity, as many plant and animal species dependent on these ecosystems faced habitat destruction and population decline."

Re: Farmland practices are driving bird population decline across Europe

#264

Post by dmreedy »

timwaagh wrote: post #254
dmreedy wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Man – despite his artistic pretensions, his sophistication and his many accomplishments – owes his existence to a 6-inch layer of topsoil and the fact that it rains." I'd hesitate to be flippant about the complexities and difficulties in the generation of food, and the market forces that it drives. And I'd certainly hesitate to claim that anyone has "better things to do".

As fancy as it is to use fancy phrases, the lecturing tone here is not matched by any substance. The argument boils down to an appeal to authority followed by a personal attack.

I like to think of it as an encouragement to meditate a bit more on, for example, why this "solution" (let the free market handle it) isn't currently already solving everything. Not argument by authority, just a reminder that perhaps you are not the first person to have thought about this problem.

And an admonishment against the hubris of just casually dropping deeply loaded positions like "Europe has more important things to worry about" than Africa or Ukraine. Hell even casual the separation of Ukraine as something outside of Europe.

If you took it as a personal attack, then perhaps it is just because a hit dog will holler.

Re: Farmland practices are driving bird population decline across Europe

#265

Post by AbsoluteCabbage »

immibis wrote: post #154
AbsoluteCabbage wrote: post #120

Is “farming to blame”, or is farming being blamed to suit an agenda? Don’t push ridiculous articles like this with zero factual evidence. What we put out to the world has real effects- especially dangerous rhetoric like this that incites the left side of the Bell curve into a frenzy.

The agenda is preventing the extinction of human life.

I’m pretty sure we need farming to continue existing as a species. Insane rhetoric like blaming cow farts on the end of the world will lead to the death of hundreds of millions due to starvation.

Re: Farmland practices are driving bird population decline across Europe

#266

Post by asdff »

jononomo wrote: post #245
asdff wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As we get more control of the resources on this planet, the proportions of species measured in earths biomass will certainly change. For example, there are no more wild cattle in europe. There are actually more domestic cattle in europe than there were ever wild cattle, however. The calories to support that surplus of bovine has to come from somewhere in the environment, there is no free energy. More nutrients that w…

There is free energy from the Sun.

Its merely driving reactions, the amount of carbon on earth isn't changing. I guess it would be better for me to say there is no free mass.

Re: Farmland practices are driving bird population decline across Europe

#267

Post by immibis »

AbsoluteCabbage wrote: post #265
immibis wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The agenda is preventing the extinction of human life.

I’m pretty sure we need farming to continue existing as a species. Insane rhetoric like blaming cow farts on the end of the world will lead to the death of hundreds of millions due to starvation.

Cow farts are contributing to the end of the world, and that's a fact. Denying reality will lead to the death of billions due to starvation. Were you unaware there are other things you can eat besides cows? Did someone pay you to post this?
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