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My 20 year career is technical debt or deprecated

blog.visionarycto.com

261–270 of 585 posts

Re: My 20 year career is technical debt or deprecated

#261

Everyone one that has counter examples thinking they prove the opposite, are just not waiting long enough. All the kids think they will be young forever. Can't blame MS for new JS libraries every month, or a new language released every month. This web site is dedicated to people showing off things they created, which replace something that turns into debt, and in turn also become flavor of the month. Yes, biased old…

It’s so weird, I used to be much more of STEM triumphalist, the kind of person who used to think the past was evil and the future can’t come fast enough. I wouldn’t consider myself conservative by any means but increasingly in 30s I’m beginning to think everyone needs to stop messing with stuff and accept imperfection.

There's a difference in the modern era with the term "conservative", and you may find the term "reserved" fits what you're describing here better.

I wouldn't consider myself conservative by any means, but I do find myself more reserved in my decision making - I'll take a bit more time to come to a decision rather than firing from the hip, etc.

Re: My 20 year career is technical debt or deprecated

#262
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who are the people who belong to "I hate Java" and "I love Jira" sets? I'd love to see that Venn diagram.

Do people who loves JIRA exist for real?

if you have a complex workflow that is supported by Jira, then you could use a simple too by switching to a simple workflow.

Keeping the complex workflow but using a dumber tool (E.g. having to track it via post-its, emails, chat, six different spreadsheets on different SharePoint servers plus sign off in two different custom in-jhouse webapps, would be worse in every aspect).

So when people say they hate Jira, they really hate the combination of Jira + the workflow under it.

I'd happily live without complex processes. But IF I have to use a complex process, I do love having one tool to handle it with, instead of eight. I did this switch FROM the 8 different spreadsheets and webapps, into the Jira/Azure DevOps/Whatever, several times. And I loved it every time because it's a less bad solution. It's not a good solution (that would be reducing complexity in the process). But for sufficiently complex organizations and tasks, some times you need a complex process and a complex tool to maintain it. And I guess in that situation no one will love the tool even though it's the least bad one.

Re: My 20 year career is technical debt or deprecated

#263
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that are not Linux, but serviced by the Windows kernel's POSIX layer under WSL1. that's not how that works. wsl is a Linux kernel running under a hypervisor integrated with windows.

You're describing WSL2, but the post you quoted explicitly said WSL1.

But is WSL1 supported by the POSIX layer? I don't think so. I think it uses some of the mechanisms built for the POSIX layer but I think it is a separate "personality".

Re: My 20 year career is technical debt or deprecated

#264
I made a whole bunch of things that have not been deprecated or tech debt. It's about which technologies you use.

C is not deprecated. Maybe in a 100 years it will be, but it seems unlikely.

It's very rare to find someone who has C as their favourite language, but it's incredibly persistent.

C is the opposite of the latest JS framework.

I regularly fix bugs in open source, where when checking when the bug was introduced the trail often runs cold in the mid to early 90s, as it predates that project's use of source control.

But yeah, if you have a 20 year career of following what is clearly the latest fad, then you'll have that experience.

Java applets were never "big". They were a fad, and promise of big. But they always sucked, even by the standards at the time.

Re: My 20 year career is technical debt or deprecated

#265

It's so weird that you'd even consider putting Rails in the same category as FoxPro, even as a theoretical. Rails is kicking ass. A huge number of people are coming back from bloated JS frameworks to realize that Rails just keeps getting better every year. Hotwire and similar technologies make the argument for SPAs look very questionable. And let's not forget where we are; over 75% of the raw gross value created by Y…

You don’t need to use a bloated JS framework.

I think TypeScript is important because of how bad JS operators are defined (operator matrix is just plain stupid, throwing error would be a better option), but everything else is optional. Otherwise JS is good enough.

On the other hand hotwire (moving HTML around) costs real latency and money to mobile users with data plans. Since when it’s better than just executing code on the (for most people strong enough mobile) device with close to 0 cost?

Re: My 20 year career is technical debt or deprecated

#266

> My entire career is now technical debt, or the code has been deprecated. My fellow dev often laugh when I tell them that instead of looking at all the long dead techs that are not useful to me anymore, my way to feel good is to look back at all the long dead techs that I didn't bother to learn . And, geez, is the graveyard huge. > Java Applets were also a big thing once upon a time. They were slow, and having the c…

> And most devs hating on Java are using an IDE written mainly in Java (all the JetBrains ones): the irony of that one gives me the giggles.

I don't use an IDE (or its not written in Java, depending how you define it) but I think I can reliably tell a Java app - if not before - when it gives me an error.

They always (or often - I can't say it's definitely not Java when I haven't identified it) seem to spew stack traces that the end user doesn't care about, or in many cases (not an IDE) wouldn't even know what it was.

Re: My 20 year career is technical debt or deprecated

#267
> My entire career is now technical debt, or the code has been deprecated.

Contrary to the author, for me, over my entire career, I feel like I have been relatively incredibly lucky with my choices of 1) What (web) technologies to invest lots of time into, and 2) Therefore what tools I use in my own projects and at companies I have worked for.

I think that 50% of the reason is down to when I was born and therefore when I started my software engineering career (for example, therefore avoiding lots of bad alleyways that web dev went down), and 50% was just common sense (realizing early-on that X tool was obviously going to be superior to Y tool).

1. I was fortunate enough to be born at a time such that I just about missed the AngularJS --> Angular2 betrayal + debacle.

2. I realized, through playing around with the Angular2 beta around 2014 (IIRC), that it was going to be inferior to React. I remember that at the time React was this tiny thing that had existed for around a year or so, but it was clearly conceptually superior, with more talented Facebook developers behind it vs the Google developers behind the early Angular2.

Not to be too disparaging or direspectful, but at least in the early days, it felt like Angular2 was made by a team of your usual C++ Google engineers who didn't have a lot of experience with web dev. Just being honest here...

This lead me to A) selecting React for my personal projects, and B) advising to pick React at companies I worked for. This meant that there are React codebases that I contributed to ~8 years ago that are still active at companies today.

3. Through sheer luck, I started my true web dev career after the "random crazy insecure web technologies" era such as Flash, Java applets, and all that nonsense.

4. Through sheer luck, I started my true web dev career shortly after Typescript was created, and I just happened to use a framework (now non-existent) which used it, co-introducing it to me in ~2014. This meant that I have been able to create relatively maintainable Typescript codebases, mostly avoiding creating any quick-to-deprecate JS mess-heaps.

There are a couple more examples, but I think that captures why I feel so lucky. I feel bad for the engineers that, through a combination of bad luck (time born, time entering the field, etc.) and lack of foresight, were led down paths causing them to invest a tonne of time into technologies that were just never going to be around for the long-run.

My time will likely come where my luck runs out, and I end up investing a tonne of time into some nonsense tech that initially seems solid but ends up rubbish for whatever reason, but for now, I'm quite pleased :)

Re: My 20 year career is technical debt or deprecated

#268
post #180

> My entire career is now technical debt, or the code has been deprecated. My fellow dev often laugh when I tell them that instead of looking at all the long dead techs that are not useful to me anymore, my way to feel good is to look back at all the long dead techs that I didn't bother to learn . And, geez, is the graveyard huge. > Java Applets were also a big thing once upon a time. They were slow, and having the c…

> And most devs hating on Java are using an IDE written mainly in Java (all the JetBrains ones): the irony of that one gives me the giggles. Reminds me of so many devs hating on Ruby and the number of times I heard that Ruby isn't used for anything relevant, while the huge majority of them either use GitHub or Gitlab for their work.

Does anyone say that? It's out of vogue but surely there must still be plenty of RoR about the web. Shopify too.

Ruby not on Rails 'not used for anything relevant' is maybe a bit more defensible. Not sure it matters/what the point is though.

Re: My 20 year career is technical debt or deprecated

#269
> I would argue that any apps written in Objective C are probably technical debt now.

That would probably include the lions' share of system code in the Apple OS ecosystem.

I'll bet a lot of it hearkens back to the NextStep days.

Since it is a UNIX OS (all of the OSes), then there's plenty of good ol' ANSI C, as well.

I'm almost positive that every AAA app is still a ObjC BoM (Ball of Mud).

Re: My 20 year career is technical debt or deprecated

#270
post #258

I feel like this is heavily connected with the idea of legacy. I grew up in Scotland, and lots of the buildings, culture, etc, have been around for hundreds of years. It would be nice to feel like something I was building would last as long and outlive me. It doesn’t though. Sometimes I think that this is just the nature of software development. Most of the stuff I build is built to solve an immediate business proble…

Why though? Does it really matter if something outlives you by 200 years? 500? On a not-that-long timeline like 10,000 years, nothing lasts. The "cathedral-like" timeline is completely arbitrary I think. Imho, there’s freedom in accepting that nothing I produce will last a long time.

I agree with your takeaway message, but the timeline isn’t completely arbitrary. From the perspective of humans appreciating things, there’s a difference between something that endures for .01x vs. 10x a person’s expected lifespan.
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