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Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#261

Post by TeMPOraL »

morelisp wrote: post #145
luckylion wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

There are at least four replies at this moment missing the point entirely, it's incredible how knee-jerk these are to defend Tesla against a defense of Tesla .

Honestly, a lot of the anti-Tesla and anti-Musk arguments I've seen people post on-line, including here on HN, are like that comment, except in earnest. I'm not surprised so many people "missed the point" when your average Tesla/Musk thread on the Internet still has people posting blatant lies and trivially fact-checkable bullshit stories, like e.g. that apartheid emerald mine thing, and that's regardless of how cultured or enlightened the venue claims to be.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#262

Post by [deleted] »

gamblor956 wrote: post #254
Alupis wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The list of countries that do not extradite or cooperate with international law enforcement is surprisingly large... it's not just tropical islands. There's also plenty of countries that would enjoy harboring a wanted US person.

The list of countries that don't extradite to the U.S. and the list of countries a wealthy person would want to live in don't have much overlap, unless you think Syria and Somalia are wonderful places to live. (There are a number of countries, like Indonesia and Vatican City that don't have extradition treaties with the U.S. but which will extradite to the U.S. through Interpol.)

[deleted]

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#263

Post by ashwagary »

rurp wrote: post #231
bradleyjg wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know of anyone that’s been convicted of wage theft, sent to prison, convicted of a new count of wage theft, sent to prison, and convicted of a new count of wage theft … or did you just want to flog your hobbyhorse regardless of how poor the fit was?

Of course not, their whole point was that nobody gets prosecuted for wage theft despite it being common.

>wage theft despite it being common.

Worse than being common, I heard US wage theft eclipses all other theft in the US combined.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#264

Post by TeMPOraL »

morelisp wrote: post #229
mynameisvlad wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, that doesn’t change how it’s a confusing and seemingly absurd claim at face value. It doesn’t read like a joke, it doesn’t in any way imply the link, it just sounds like an absurd statement put out to incite responses. And people clearly all read it this way. If one person read it wrong then sure, you might have a point. If every single person replying read it this way, then it just shows the point was not cl…

> seemingly absurd ... doesn’t read like a joke Buddy,

It would've been a joke if it wasn't indistinguishable from a typical anti-Tesla/anti-Musk comment on-line. Hence the confusion.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#265

Post by gvedem »

memish wrote: post #234
KindAndFriendly wrote: post #15

Reading this entire story, it baffles me that as of today I can still add a "Full Self-Driving Capability" option when ordering a Tesla.

It demonstrably has FSD capability. Marques Brownlee has a video from last year where it drove him to his studio. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nF0K2nJ7N8

>Marques Brownlee has a video from last year where it drove him to his studio.

I don't know where to start with this if you think that one, year-old video is somehow proof that Tesla FSD is ready for use--and, say, the recall earlier this year isn't indication that maybe it's not.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#266

Post by gvedem »

lallysingh wrote: post #140
figassis wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't think this is the point. Calling something Oranges, and then saying "they're not really oranges, but an approximation, but we call them oranges bc it sounds cool" is still fraudulent in my view.

It's actually really common. Like lemonade with no fruit juice. Or check out "Mayo" fake mayonnaise. It's literally not mayonnaise.

doesn't make it okay though

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#267

Post by ceejayoz »

00F_ wrote: post #257
ceejayoz wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so where is your proposal to limit the passengers of a self driving car That limit is in place for student drivers to limit distractions; it's a specific mitigation to a problem specific to them. FSD needs its own. > where is your proposal for compromise? I'd like to see safety data reporting requirements that come from regulators, not Tesla, whose self-reported cherry-picked data points I find quite suspect. (Exam…

these compromises are productive and show that you do come from a place of intellectual honesty. if the federal government had been tasked with overseeing the early versions of fsd, it would have been swiftly shut down because of the nature of the federal government, not to mention the politics. but thanks to the private sector we now have modern fsd which is bar none the most advanced and capable self-driving soluti…

> your bio says 'fuck elon musk.'

My Twitter bio does. Added shortly after he banned links to Mastodon, broke Tweetbot (and lied about them breaking the rules), and announced breaking changes to the Twitter APIs I use extensively at work with a few days warning.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#268

Post by pedrosorio »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #264
morelisp wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> seemingly absurd ... doesn’t read like a joke Buddy,

It would've been a joke if it wasn't indistinguishable from a typical anti-Tesla/anti-Musk comment on-line. Hence the confusion.

Are anti-Tesla comments claiming they sell relabeled VWs a common occurrence on the internet?

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#269

Post by gergi137 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #240
00F_ wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so where is your proposal to limit the passengers of a self driving car, all of the countless brands who are advertising level 2 systems? where is your proposal for compromise? there are none because nobody who likes pouring cold water on tesla is coming from a place of intellectual honesty. so self driving cars could only exist for a billionaires profit? how about for the countless lives that will be saved by this t…

> so where is your proposal to limit the passengers of a self driving car That limit is in place for student drivers to limit distractions; it's a specific mitigation to a problem specific to them. FSD needs its own. > where is your proposal for compromise? I'd like to see safety data reporting requirements that come from regulators, not Tesla, whose self-reported cherry-picked data points I find quite suspect. (Exam…

I 100% agree with you that we should have regulators auditing and verifying safety information for autonomous systems.

But I'd like to point out that the link you included is out-of-date. Tesla has continued to publish their autopilot safety numbers in their quarterly slide decks. Here is Q3 2022 for example, see page 10: https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/static/SVCPTV_2022_Q4_Quarterly_...

Miles between accidents on Autopilot Q4 2021: 4.3 million miles Q1 2022: 6.5 million miles Q2 2022: 5.1 million miles Q4 2022: 6.2 million miles

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#270

Post by asveikau »

pas wrote: post #245
asveikau wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also baffling that she faces consequences for financial fraud and not the impact on patient health of knowingly giving faulty test results.

that was what could be proved in court personally (that she had intent) when it comes to the patient health there was not this clear paper trail

I don't know this area, but I suspect the regulatory framework around this needs revision so that government could discover that kind of malice, i.e. if there were some requirement of regular reporting that would have created the paper trail.
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