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Framework Laptop 16

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Re: Framework Laptop 16

#261

Post by floren »

sanitycheck wrote: post #222
causi wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are there still only tiny slivered arrow keys when the palm rest is so big you could park a car on it?

It's a complete bloody mystery and I thought the same thing when I saw their other laptops. I'm sure their target audience uses the cursor keys more than almost every other key, and they've made them those horrible tiny nubs. You could literally fit all four of them into the footprint of that right shift key, the right shift key that I have never even once pressed in 30 years of computing. No matter what else they do…

I use the arrow keys occasionally, but wouldn't miss them too much if they disappeared.

However, because I know how to type, I use the right shift key constantly. Of all the keys to fuss about...

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#262

Post by cduzz »

bityard wrote: post #248
nicoburns wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently the reason nobody makes station wagons new (for the US market) is because the US has a tax on cars and there is a loophole that allows SUVs and pickup trucks to avoids it as they are classified as "light trucks". There are plenty of station wagons made for the european market (although we call them estate cars on this side of the pond).

In my state, SUVs are classified as station wagons. I think station wagons just mostly went out of style. I think it's dumb but the American public has always gravitated towards physically bigger and bigger cars, to the point where it's considered totally normal to commute to an office job in a 12 mpg super duty pickup with extended crew cab and duallies in the back.

In the USA the roads are big, the fuel's cheap, and everyone's got a huge vehicle so you need one too to feel safe / be able to see anything; it's an arms race everyone loses.

If you live some place where the SUV's just not going to fit and energy's more expensive, you get the smaller vehicle and everyone else does too.

There are tax rules around huge vehicles in the USA -- you can fully depreciate an enormous work vehicle so there's a surprising number of vehicles that fit just barely into that enormous category.

The only way to get a "manual" these days is to get an electric car. Not exactly a manual, but more like a manual than a slush box.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#263

Post by ris58h »

marpstar wrote: post #179
panick21_ wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe don't generalize your personal experience. Working with almost anything can give you carpal tunnel. Is there any evidence carpal tunnel is more likely then with any other input method?

More anecdotes from me on the input-method to wrist-problems correlation: I weight train regularly. Lots of forearm tension. I noticed one day that it always hurt more when I was scrolling (using an original Apple Magic Mouse). Brutal repetitive strain injury. However, when I went for periods of time only using the trackpad in my MacBook, my arm would feel Upon realization, pretty much immediately switched to a track…

Same story. Magic Trackpad is a life saver and the reason I'm stuck with Macbooks.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#264

Post by kitsunesoba »

Runways wrote: post #240
sudosysgen wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can completely turn off dGPUs from software nowadays. In theory the driver should do it for you when it's not in use (And I find this works well for me), but you can also forcefully turn them off, both on Windows and Linux, such that they draw exactly 0W.

Hmmm. My experience with XPS 15s is you can turn it off with software in Linux, but it was pretty technical (not something average users would be keen on). I wasn't sure if that was the case for most laptops. It definitely wasn't drawing 0W when I was just coding/browsing/etc though, it doubled the battery life in Linux when I turned it off.

Yeah, my experience with iGPU+dGPU setups outside of MacBooks has been messy. Part of the problem perhaps is the various different ways it can be set up, e.g. with/without mux switch, and last I knew AMD and Nvidia handle iGPU ↔ dGPU handoffs differently rather than agreeing on a standard.

With that in mind I'd also prefer that there be a way to flip off the dGPU in BIOS to guarantee that it can't unexpectedly become a power vampire.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#265

Post by tracker1 »

jiehong wrote: post #215
tracker1 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah... considering there are good browser APIs and most server platforms support language matching, that they could relatively easily deliver language content without specific language endpoints. Not that it's easy, just completely doable if it's a significant concern.

Automatic language matching is a real pain actually. - sometimes the article / product is only available in 1 language and the redirection leads nowhere (I’ve seen it many times) - the language of my phone/computer does not match the one where I live, and even maybe not the language I used to search for that thing in the first place. So yeah, I never like it, especially when you live near the border of multiple count…

I wish language selection in OS and Browser were easier to access... but your browser does send a language header with your request, which generally matches your browser.

Location based is and can be a pain. I live in a border state and often get spanish versions of sites... I also follow a couple prominent youtubers who post english and foreign language content, so sometimes get results in those languages, that I don't read.

That said, using the default for the browser, and allowing override isn't a bad thing... I usually look for something that looks like a flag in the upper right, for language selection. And the few times I've written multi-language sites/apps that's the UX I prefer to use. I would default to browser/header, I would respond to the change event, and if the user selects a preference, set a cookie and use that first.

Again, I do wish it were easier to switch for the browser itself.

1. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Headers/Ac...

2. https://github.com/i18next/i18next-browser-languageDetector/...

3. https://github.com/i18next/i18next-browser-languageDetector

4. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Window/lang...

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#266

Post by cduzz »

tracker1 wrote: post #115
cduzz wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a trope in car nerd circles of "We all know the best vehicle is a manual transmission brown diesel station wagon" and then of course these people only buy one that's 10 years old, so at this point no car company makes such a beast new . Pre-covid I'd made do with whatever garbage keyboard and garbage monitor $job dumped in front of me, but almost by happenstance I ended up with a 16:10 monitor and an IBM M4-1…

I spent over a decade dealing with the mushy keyboards... my preference now is the M-style unicomp, which I use on my work computer... or I'll fall back to a Cherry mx brown switch keyboard, if there's complaints. I use one for my personal desktop too for backlighting. There's nothing like the feel, and my RSI issues that I was starting to get improved greatly not bottoming out on a sponge for every key tap. Unfortun…

It looks as though, to make the framework taller to support keys with travel, you'd need an entirely different case -- but so long as the mountpoints for everything were otherwise the same it seems like it wouldn't be a radical rework of the product.

One can imagine a double thickness framework with either somewhat bigger battery and mechanical keys or super huge battery and the smaller keys; and of course more (or at least larger) expansion cards.

But of course the idea for something is worthless - it's the execution that matters. I hope they succeed enough to be able to expand their portfolio to more niche markets.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#267

Post by thatsten »

nrp wrote: post #167
dakial1 wrote: post #87

I wonder if there is a market for a framework gaming laptop. Really hope there is. Also, on another note, I've read this engadget article about how other companies tried to build an upgradeable laptop and failed but I see Framework as a different kind of beast for one simple reason. This is their only value proposition, they don't have an alternative. In a very "Innovator's Dilemma" kind of. way, Dell and other big m…

We’ve been very deliberate about making this not a traditional gaming laptop, but a laptop that can be configured with enough performance to play intense games. You can configure it without the Graphics Module and have a high-performance 16” notebook with reconfigurable input and easy repairability and upgradeabilty.

I wonder if your offering would address a corner case: I have a Dell XPS 15 with a dedicated GPU. It's really obnoxious to allocate the dgpu to a vm and still use the igpu for video output, because the video output gets muxed through the igpu. Would the Framework let me use maybe a dummy plug on the dgpu and avoid muxing to make it easier to give the dgpu to a vm?

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#268

Post by hojjat12000 »

sanitycheck wrote: post #222
causi wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are there still only tiny slivered arrow keys when the palm rest is so big you could park a car on it?

It's a complete bloody mystery and I thought the same thing when I saw their other laptops. I'm sure their target audience uses the cursor keys more than almost every other key, and they've made them those horrible tiny nubs. You could literally fit all four of them into the footprint of that right shift key, the right shift key that I have never even once pressed in 30 years of computing. No matter what else they do…

It's a qmk keyboard, you can literally map CapsLock+H/J/K/L to be your arrow keys!

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#269

Post by horsawlarway »

codedokode wrote: post #129
bleep_bloop wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any 13" laptops on the market with more than 4 ports? None that come to my mind. My macbook air has only 2 x USB C and I've never come across a situation where I needed more. For a 13" 4 ports is more than most people require and it wouldn't make sense for a small start up to only target extremely niche use cases.

The manufacturers do everything wrong. Why not add 10 ports to every laptop? Are USB-A sockets so expensive? It surprises me especially that MacBooks seem to be targeted at professionals, like creators and creators always have lot of stuff with USB plugs - like MIDI keyboards, MIDI controllers, external audio interfaces, mouse, drawing tablet, external hard drives - but MacBook only has like 3 sockets, despite being…

> Are USB-A sockets so expensive?

I mean... objectively speaking here: yes.

They eat up a ridiculously large amount of physical space. Ports are cheap when space is cheap. Space is at a very high premium for laptops.

The port doesn't just magically disappear into the machine, it eats up that entire chunk of the laptop. Space which could be going to mainboard / speakers / hid / battery.

So modern laptops give you a very high bandwidth and low physical size bus (thunderbolt/usb-c) and a duplicate so you can charge at the same time and that's really all you need. Now I get the best laptop for the space the case takes up and the option to plug all that other stuff in is still there. The bus is plenty fast, you just need an adapter or dock.

I have a 4 usb-c port machine. I've never had all 4 ports in use at the same time. I have (just counting plugs on my hub) 9 usb devices and 2 4k monitors plugged into my machine. Switching them over from work to personal laptop is as simple as unplugging and replugging a usb-c cable. Feels fine to me.

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