What interests me is how anybody could ever come to believe otherwise. The contrary belief flies in the face of all common sense, popular experience and medical science. It seems to come entirely from propaganda on social media telling fat people what they want to believe.
> What interests me is how anybody could ever come to believe otherwise. The contrary belief flies in the face of all common sense, popular experience and medical science. Did you read the article? I can give you two simple examples: Look at any picture of Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson when he has been ripped. Ditto with Arnold Schwarzenegger in his prime. BMI says these folks are either obese or severely obese. Extreme…
“Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you
261–270 of 397 posts
Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you
#262Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm interested in 3. Is there any research or data about that? I do not encourage fat shaming at all, but I can also imagine that in some cases shame may be a powerful motivator for some people. Is there hard data showing that it actually makes it harder?
Anecdotally, I made a comment to a non-obese 20 something year old about how it is unhealthy to be obese. They went absolutely ballistic saying that I was fat-shaming and that you can’t say obesity is unhealthy.
Unfortunately getting into that argument is a minefield.
Just let them be adults and manager their life as they please. At one point they might becone fed up with life as a fat person and they'll make the effort.
And it they don't, well, there are people who smoke from teenage years all the way to the grave
But, either eay, people dont humiliate smokers the way they do with fat people
Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
They are making a choice to be fat because they eat the quantity of food that creates that condition in their body. Nobody says two people should eat the same level of food. You should eat the appropriate amount for your body.
People, in the long term, eat as much as they need to not feel hungry. Whether they are slim or overweight. Asking people to ear less than they are eating now is thus asking them to be perpetually hungry. It can be done, even for a year or two if they have willpower, but eventually they will get sick of being cold, tired and irritated all the time --because that is what chronic hunger does to you-- and they will go b…
Unless they are on a particularly aggressive program of calorie reduction, eating less than they are eating now is not asking them to be perpetually hungry.
Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you
#264Earlier quoted context omitted.
Citation needed. Nobody gets fat without over-eating. Walking and exercise in general make less difference to weight loss than diet. People know what food is healthy. If they choose not to do it, it's on them.
1. people do get fat from things other than "over eating" - citation: https://www.drugs.com/article/weight-gain.html 2. I'm the great-grandparent in this thread. My original comment was in essence: I am naturally skinny, nobody questions that. Is it so strange that people might be naturally fat? You've said something that DIRECTLY contradicts that argument, without any evidence or argument to explain why - all you've…
In animal husbandry, people breed livestock for their "feed conversion ratio" - I.e which animals can most efficiently convert the same amount of food into the most additional bodyweight. It's not a stretch to think something similar might happen in people.
However, if you're one of those people that puts on more weight per item of food then it sucks to be you, but you'll need to eat less food.
Re: your point about medicines - I doubt they manage to create additional calories out of thin air.
Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you
#265Earlier quoted context omitted.
They are making a choice to be fat because they eat the quantity of food that creates that condition in their body. Nobody says two people should eat the same level of food. You should eat the appropriate amount for your body.
People, in the long term, eat as much as they need to not feel hungry. Whether they are slim or overweight. Asking people to ear less than they are eating now is thus asking them to be perpetually hungry. It can be done, even for a year or two if they have willpower, but eventually they will get sick of being cold, tired and irritated all the time --because that is what chronic hunger does to you-- and they will go b…
Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you
#266Earlier quoted context omitted.
> as most people, admittedly myself included, are not willing to exercise? I'll never get that, we only get one shot at life, even a few hours of exercise per _week_ will greatly increase your quality of life and healthy life span, there are no better medicine, nothing will give you your body back once it's too late. Some people on this forum will grind 60+ (even much more) hours per week at work, absolutely wrecking…
Dopamine is well: a hell of a drug, and there's far easier ways to get it than excising. For example: video games. Our brains want the most pleasure from the least amount of effort and don't work on long timelines in the future. So, it makes sense. But I'm with you - I find that exercise works well for me as the one of the best things that makes life better. But I also avoid things like video games, drugs, too much s…
That's why I said it train self control, you focus on "future you", not "immediate you"
Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What interests me is how anybody could ever come to believe otherwise. The contrary belief flies in the face of all common sense, popular experience and medical science. Did you read the article? I can give you two simple examples: Look at any picture of Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson when he has been ripped. Ditto with Arnold Schwarzenegger in his prime. BMI says these folks are either obese or severely obese. Extreme…
So two examples of individuals that are using huge amounts of anabolic steroids is "illustrative of the weakness of bmi?" Give me a break. All measures are going to have edge cases. And by the way, those two guys actually are pretty unhealthy -- your body is not made to carry around that much weight.
I’m a 50-something desk jockey, and I’ve never used steroids or any sort of PED. I just eat well, make an effort to exercise, and my genetics steer me towards muscle building. I was also an athlete when I was younger (not sure if this matters).
I mentioned the rock and Arnold were extreme examples, but they were there to make a point… bmi is not meant to be used to measure individuals.
Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you
#268Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exercising is easy, most people can find an activity they enjoy doing. Eating right is a far more demanding task, and sadly that's what matters when it comes to losing weight.
Exercising in the US is hard AF, and only getting harder. There’s comparatively little opportunity to make exercise a part of daily routine. I’m either behind the wheel or a car or behind a desk all day.
As a counterpoint, I also live in the US and have never found making time to exercise to be some kind of insurmountable task -- even when I was commuting almost 3h/day. Exercising requires just a few hours out of your whole week
Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
Citation needed. Nobody gets fat without over-eating. Walking and exercise in general make less difference to weight loss than diet. People know what food is healthy. If they choose not to do it, it's on them.
You're not providing citations either. Get off your fat hating high horse. Walking and exercise make a HUGE difference in average weight. Just look at Canada, a place mostly analogous to the US, but with way more walkable cities and better public transit. They don't have this problem. Regardless of how people get fat, we know for a fact that it's nearly impossible to get back to a healthy weight. Children of fat pare…
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy
https://researchblog.duke.edu/2021/03/24/duke-researcher-bus...
I got back to a healthy weight by losing 15kgs. It can be done.
Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s because American society doesn’t let being unhealthy be an affirmative choice. You either need to demonstrate some kind of shame for your unhealthiness or some kind rationale that explains how its actually healthy. The honest facts that “I like to eat tasty good” and “I don’t really enjoy too much physical activity” are only permissible if you also say “and I can’t help myself” or “and it’s actually not unhealth…
It isn't the only thing in life of course. If you're healthy but living on the street it's not a very nice life. For me being obese is not really a choice. It's just really hard to do anything about it, especially because I tend to overeat when I encounter stress in life. And I'm not wired with the discipline to fix it. I often go on diets but they never last. Also, living alone cooking is a real chore and there's no…
Like: car dependent suburbia. If you don't grow up walking to the shops with your parents, walking to the park to play, walking to school, cycling to school, walking or cycling to work; if your only exposure to movement is mandatory exercise at school which is unpleasant, what does that do to your lifelong views? If your environment doesn't have anywhere interesting to walk to, or any sidewalk to walk on, what does that do?
Like: If your parents and family never moved except to get to the car, what kind of early mental expectations does that set you up with? Children try to imitate their parents, if the parents alway groan and complain about having to walk anywhere, that's some kind of lesson.
Like: Livestrong.com says "The average restaurant meal is four times larger than it was in the 1950s. Similarly, the size of American-manufactured dinner plates has increased nearly 23 percent, from 9.6 inch". If you habitually eat out at restaurants and they gradually feed you more, more sugary, food, but you still have the "clean your plate to be polite" mentality, what does that do?
Like: where did this idea of "healthy food" come from? "Health" isn't something in food.
Like: where did the idea that cooking is "a real chore" come from? Can't one grow up to find preparing food a relaxing joy, an interest, an everyday part of life? Or learn to spend less time on it, e.g. meal prepping?
Like: "I tend to overeat when I encounter stress in life" - Where does that behaviour come from? That's learned from somewhere, it isn't innate to cavepeople to have food on hand just in case life gets stressful, it's likely some family or community cultural habit where others might not do that.
I think it was Paul Lutus in a Reddit AMA, someone asked him if he baked much when living in a cabin in the woods, and he said he found it difficult to resist eating baked goods so he just didn't make them or buy them. That kind of discipline is much easier than buying them, having them nearby, and trying to resist eating them every moment forever.
> "Sure but if I could have changed it I would have."
Perhaps you can't, there are suggestions that becoming obese screws up your body forever, so it burns less fat (e.g. prefering quicker feeling of tiredness to reduce movement, rather than breaking the laws of thermodynamics), holds onto fat more strongly, distorts feelings of hunger and satiety and food cravings. UK comedian Ed Gamble who lost a lot of weight jokingly commented about thin people "if you don't think about food, what are you thinking about literally all the time?". It's possible that wasn't joking and years of obsessively thinking about food engrained that as a pattern he will be stuck with for the rest of his life, when always-thin people can forget about food when thinking about other things.