"Tesla will deliver an over-the-air software update to cars to address the issues, the recall notice said"
A bit of a sensational title compared to what this really is.
Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes
261–270 of 864 posts
Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes
#262Earlier quoted context omitted.
> One can kill people the other not. No, that's not correct. Whether it can kill people or not is orthogonal to whether it's a true physical recall of the car or a software update.
I think that it’s more about using the most appropriate known terminology in order to try to get the most people to do the needful. “recall” sounds more urgent/dire than “software update”, and will likely encourage many more people to take action vs using “software update” or some less familiar terminology. The word “recall” in terms of autos has built up a lot of history/prior art in people’s minds as something to r…
The whole point of over-the-air updates is that the owner doesn't need to do anything. For example, both Tesla and Toyota have had bugs in their ABS software that required recalls. The owners of the Toyotas had to physically bring their cars in to get the software update which slows down the adoption drastically. The Teslas received the update automatically and asked for the best time to install the update the next time the owner got in the car.
There are really two issues here. The FSD and the OTA updates. Let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater and blame OTA updates just because Tesla's FSD software is bad. The OTA updates do provide an avenue to make cars much safer by reducing the friction for these type of safety fixes.
Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
One can kill people the other not. Guess which one. >> "...The FSD Beta system may cause crashes by allowing the affected vehicles to: “Act unsafe around intersections, such as traveling straight through an intersection while in a turn-only lane, entering a stop sign-controlled intersection without coming to a complete stop, or proceeding into an intersection during a steady yellow traffic signal without due caution,…
> One can kill people the other not. No, that's not correct. Whether it can kill people or not is orthogonal to whether it's a true physical recall of the car or a software update.
It is the terminology that exists in US automotive regulations (what little there effectively are).
A "recall" is just a public record that a safety-related defect existed, the products impacted and what the manufacturer performed in terms of a corrective action.
Additionally, I believe that the possibility exists that Tesla must update the vehicle software at a service center due to configuration issues. Only a small number of vehicles may require that type of corrective action, but the possibility exists.
Historically, there exist product recalls (especially outside of the automotive domain) where the product in question does not have to be returned (replacement parts are shipped to the impacted customers, for example).
Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes
#264Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's the thing about neural networks: any QA is going to be superficial due to their statistical black box nature.
What? Black box testing has plenty of techniques: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black-box_testing Whether it's a neural network inside or not is completely irrelevant. That's why it's called "black box".
Practical neural networks operate in enormous parameter spaces that are impossible to meaningfully test for all possible adversarial inputs and degraded outputs. Your FSD could well recognize stop signs in your battery of tests but not when someone drew a squirrel on it with green sharpie.
Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes
#265I have a Model 3, and was excited to get the FSD beta access about a month ago. I don't use it super regularly, but it's neat. This morning I tried to turn it on, and the car immediately veered left into the oncoming lane on a straight, 2 lane road. Fortunately, there were no other vehicles nearby. I immediately turned it off in the settings, and have no intention of re-enabling.
Are you planning to join a class action lawsuit so you can get your money back?
I've had it do strange stuff too... but I use it regularly in dense traffic it's great for stop and go traffic. the important thing is if you're driving you're driving. I don't turn it on and think oh sweet i can take a nap or read some hacker news posts... I keep my eyes on the road. There are bugs and I don't trust it but I do use it much like I use ChatGPT and the likes...
Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes
#266Meanwhile, the only actual L3 capable car is a Mercedes. Plenty of people will argue that AP is actually superior, but I don't think there's any way to say that for sure, given the tight constraints Mercedes has put on their driver assistance in order to lower the liability enough to make L3 not a bankruptcy event. For certain, however, they are more confident in their technology than Tesla is, otherwise Tesla would…
Makes me think karpathys "bet" on vision being the only sensor was maybe misguided
Radar could help so much in thick fog and rain...
Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you planning to join a class action lawsuit so you can get your money back?
I would suggest reading all the disclaimers and screens one has to review (or skip, at their own peril) in order to actually get access to FSD Beta. You would likely not believe a Class Action lawsuit is a cakewalk if you read those screens...
How would you know, are you a lawyer?
Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes
#268Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes
#269I have a Model 3, and was excited to get the FSD beta access about a month ago. I don't use it super regularly, but it's neat. This morning I tried to turn it on, and the car immediately veered left into the oncoming lane on a straight, 2 lane road. Fortunately, there were no other vehicles nearby. I immediately turned it off in the settings, and have no intention of re-enabling.
Are you planning to join a class action lawsuit so you can get your money back?
it's a beta that you opt-in to use will all the warning and details. No chance.
Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why? It involves a safety system! That needs to be tracked publicly and updated! Nothing more than an OTA - does not mean much when everything is fly by wire and a bug could mean your car does not stop accelerating or something.
Recall implies something being returned. This should be called a mandatory software patch, or something like that. The problem is Tesla owners repeatedly see "recall" to mean "software update", so this might lead to a lot of confusion if a physical recall is actually required in the future.
It's hilarious watching Tesla owners and Elon complain about the wording when it's Tesla's fault this is a recall.
If Tesla had willingly walked this back, it'd be a software update, or a beta delay, or whatever they wanted to call it.
What laypeople don't realize is that this is being called a recall because the NHTSA pushed them into it: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RCLRPT-23V085-3451.PDF
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FSD has been a cartoonish display for the better part of a year now, it wasn't until last month that the NHTSA actually pushed on them to do a recall, and from there they "disagreed with the NHTSA but submitted a recall"... which is code for "submitted the recall NHTSA forced on them to submit"
Elon knows better, but he knows he can weaponize people's lack of familiarity with this space and inspire outrage at the "big bad overreaching government"