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Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

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261–270 of 535 posts

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#261

"I should be thankful they don’t make me pay a yearly developer fee for making python apps on my Macbook." Just wait a few years... I predict that they'll charge to develop anything.

Not sure if this is a joke or not. What makes you say this? Is there any reason they would do that?

The fact that you can’t tell whether this is a joke or not is itself exactly the right commentary.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is slippery-slope fearmongering. In reality, Apple has gone out of its way to ensure that Apple Silicon Macs can boot other operating systems if the user so desires, and can do so without sacrificing security.

I actually mean all the little Vista-style popups that recent macOS versions introduced, on top of the quarantine and notarization bullshit which gets harder to skip in each release. Just give me a simple checkbox in the system settings that this is a "developer machine and I know what I'm doing" which disables all that stuff and it would be fine.

Just install linux/OpenBSD and log in as root instead of using sudo. I do not find MacOS any more intrusive than my non-rooted Unices.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#263
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you get around it though? Genuinely asking. I guess you try to source your own parts outside of controlling companies and only work on open source OS's and software run by super transparent groups? It just seems like a ton of work for something that might not even be viable. I don't know how I could possibly operate outside of apple, microsoft, google, etc. all of which have massive ethical issues. To be very…

> How do you get around it though? Genuinely asking. Parent only talked about Apple so it could be that they're running Windows on a "PC" instead. But Linux is also perfectly usable. If you're someone who tinkers with hobby projects, I don't see how it could be a real impediment. Everything that you would do on a mac is available to you, except for Xcode which is mainly for projects that target Apple devices anyway.

I'm a video producer (and do a lot of editing) so codec/NLE compatibility is absolutely paramount. I've always been weary of swapping to linux because of that.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#264
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, you are right. Jobs himself said that he wanted to go beyond selling computers, and sell information appliances. In that respect, he and Woz were diametrically opposed. When he was squeezed out of management in his own company, it is not a coïncidence that he elbowed his way into Jef Raskin's Macintosh project: Raskin was also interested in building information appliances, the difference between the two men wa…

> Jobs never lost his vision that Apple should sell appliances, and people who wanted to "wrench their own devices" should buy PCs. And honestly, I don't think information appliances are a bad thing to have in the world. It's not the kind of device I would choose for myself, but there's a class of users for whom a general computing device isn't just overkill, it's downright dangerous. Android is fine for my use case,…

> there's a class of users for whom a general computing device isn't just overkill, it's downright dangerous

I am not sure if you are trying to come off as snobby, but that's how this reads.

This 'class of users' is in many cases very technical people who just don't want their phone to be anything other than an appliance. It's quite common to love tinkering with things, while not wanting to tinker with everything.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A huge part of the improvement has been sandboxing, code signing, and trusted distribution channels. In the Windows XP era, a freeware game or utility you downloaded turning out to be a virus was 100% your fault. It wasn’t a defect in Windows that your whole computer got owned, that was just how computers worked. Crazy to me that people want to go back there.

> Crazy to me that people want to go back there. It's not so crazy if you understand that there are people who want to be able to have complete control over their own machines. These modern security measures trade that control for security. But there are many circumstances where that tradeoff is undesirable. Perhaps the machine will never be connected to a network. Perhaps the owner of that machine is willing and abl…

Then they can use devices and operating systems with that philosophy. A Linux sysadmin absolutely can and should be free to do whatever they need to their company’s servers. Instead people are angry about the existence of any consumer device with barriers to arbitrary code execution.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#266
post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's worse than appliance. Appliance doesn't actively block you from using it for something not listed in instruction manual

An appliance is engineered to serve a narrow set of purposes, which can also be said for iOS. The only way in which an iPhone is worse is that it is an information appliance built on hardware that could be general purpose if run with different software. But if you consider the appliance to be both hardware and software , it is no more restrictive than any other appliance.

The difference is that iPhone is intentionally restricted by Apple to not allow you to use it in unintended ways, which "incidentally" brings a lot of additional profit to the company.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#267

The relationship some developers have with Apple should be a case-study with multiple PhD thesis in psychology. Not even in movies I've seen so many cases of children desperately chasing their emotionally unavailable parent. Apple is a trillion dollar company, it's the "parent" who sells you +$40 dongles for everything. "Hobbies" are only good if they make them money AND doesn't increase their risk or any liability.…

I agree. The whole article left me feeling a resounding "well, duhhhhhh". The author has simply chosen one of the least hackable compute platforms for his hacking hobby and is then complaining about it (I mean "hacking" in the original sense, not implying anything about illegal activities). If he were a farmer writing angry blog posts about how VW has made it damned-near impossible to plough a field with a VW beetle,…

It's entirely hackable for free if you don't want to use the Apple SDK, though. His complaint is pretty narrow.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#269
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's basically here. We've been using it in production for our clients for almost a year now. The #1 reason we are moving away from iOS native to web app is because of Apple's policies and how convoluted the signing experience is.

Push notifications and install prompt have not landed yet/enabled by default AFAIK. Once that happens, I am seriously considering leaving the App Store. I hate the review process, I hate having to use capacitor, I hate their billing APIs, and I hate having to have a Mac build pipeline.

> Push notifications and install prompt have not landed yet/enabled by default AFAIK.

"In Safari 16 in macOS 13 or later, Safari supports web push — push notifications that use the cross-browser Push API, Notifications API, and Service Worker standards."

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/usernotifications/...

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#270
post #165

I’m not defending this, but after 15 years, I don’t see the point in complaining. We complain (rightfully) about the amount of crap in the App Store and Apple's capricious review policies that don’t stop the scammers, but for better or worse, the $99 fee IS a barrier to entry that I would argue has made the iOS ecosystem better than Android. I’ve been paying $99 a year for early access to iOS betas and for my own tes…

[flagged]

Can’t the same be said about going to an amusement park since it’s not something you leave with other than an experience? (The experience in the GP case being access to the open betas)
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