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The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#261

Post by TchoBeer »

kypro wrote: post #226
arp242 wrote: post #2

Another possible explanation is that we are simply diagnosing these kind of mental health issues better – due to decrease in stigmatization and/or more attention to it – but that our treatment is worse than doing nothing, and is leading to higher rates of self-harm and suicide. I have no idea if that's the case – and if it is a factor at all it probably doesn't account for all of it – but it seems something worth exp…

I think the opposite could be true – that we're too quick to diagnose mental illnesses in kids today. In the last few years I've witnessed several kids in my family get referred to doctors for potential mental illnesses and then end up on a cocktail of drugs as a result. It's something I've found really difficult because I was never personally convinced they were mentally ill in the first place and in many cases thes…

I understand this perspective, but I think that it's an overcorrection. I grew up with depression that went untreated until my late teens, and if I wasn't medicated when I was or soon thereafter I would in all likelihood not be alive today. My sister has really severe ADHD and she was unable to function until she got medicated for ADHD before teenagerhood. Saying "it's ok to be anxious and shy sometimes" is all well and good, but being shy and anxious can often be painful and prevent people from interacting socially in ways that they want to do but are too painful. I think it's probable that we are overmedicating psychological ailments, but I also would be loathe to stop medications without another solution.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#262

Post by Justsignedup »

Biggest issue I'm seeing is people in the digital ecosystems (even myself) often lack in high quality friends who they regularly see. I noticed how I would form bonds with people over a game, but as soon as we both move on, we effectively just fizzle away and lose friends.

Meanwhile my daughter is having similar issues. She has more closer ties to people online than in the physical world, which means that when we want to host parties or she just wants to do things, she's unable to invite her closest friends because they may live on the opposite side of the continent.

Now the shortcuts to social gratification are VERY easy, compared to before, and because of this, it is easy to spiral into the shortcut path, and not meaningful long term relationships. And so now more than ever it is important to be very intentional about keeping up friendships compared to before where you simply had to do things to create bonds. Even the "loners" would find friends in comic book stores, but now that moved online and less regular or connected.

I don't think it is social media. I think it is just the ease of remote communication. I am sure there was a similar problem when the telephone came out because people could now keep in touch with friends outside their neighborhoods. Hell at this point I only know 1 non-family member in my neighborhood who I interact with at all.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#263

Post by DanHulton »

kypro wrote: post #226
arp242 wrote: post #2

Another possible explanation is that we are simply diagnosing these kind of mental health issues better – due to decrease in stigmatization and/or more attention to it – but that our treatment is worse than doing nothing, and is leading to higher rates of self-harm and suicide. I have no idea if that's the case – and if it is a factor at all it probably doesn't account for all of it – but it seems something worth exp…

I think the opposite could be true – that we're too quick to diagnose mental illnesses in kids today. In the last few years I've witnessed several kids in my family get referred to doctors for potential mental illnesses and then end up on a cocktail of drugs as a result. It's something I've found really difficult because I was never personally convinced they were mentally ill in the first place and in many cases thes…

sigh

Well, _I_ think it's going too far. Way too far.

Myself, for example, I had raging ADHD throughout my life and only recently in my 40s started to get treatment. And incidentally, treatment isn't _just_ drugs, it's also counseling, to help identify coping mechanisms, work through trauma, identify strategies to help you to become effective despite working differently from how neurotypical people work. I'm in a good place now, but it is largely due to luck. It took a lot of work for me to not feel grief over how my life could have been different if I had been diagnosed earlier, if I had had the level of treatment available now, back then.

And I don't want to get too far into it because it's not my story to tell, but I have friends who are way worse off. They dealt with far more than I ever had to, in terms of depression, anxiety, etc, and they did it by themselves, with no or limited medical and psychiatric support, while suffering the stigma of a society that did not respect what they were going through at all, with friends and family who could only suggest that they "toughen up". Many of them I'm not in contact with any more, for reasons related and unrelated, but overall though, I _wish_ they had the options and respect for their conditions that kids today have. I can't even imagine the difference it could have made.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#264

Post by stanford_labrat »

nluken wrote: post #79

While I don't doubt that social media can drive some of these mental health issues, I think most teenagers are simply stressed from the constant work that's necessary for the college admissions process. I'm 24, so I would have been a teenager in 2012, but I didn't have a smartphone until I was 16 or so. My high school experience consisted almost entirely of school, studying, and running (my primary extracurricular).…

> It's very easy to think that you're a failure if you don't know exactly who you are and what you want to be at age 17

I'm 26 (almost 27, so let's say 27) and I think this echoes my experience fairly well. I felt like a failure because I didn't get into the top schools for undergrad even though I struggled so hard and objectively had good stats that I (at the time) thought would've made me a compelling/competitive applicant. Varsity athlete, played instrument, loads of APs and top of my class, yadayadayadayadayada.

I think the evolution of the college application process and the perpetual rising bar has definitely affected teens mental health. Anecdotal but I experienced pressure to do well from peers, the school, and my own family.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#265

Post by caeril »

slowmovintarget wrote: post #54
oneoff786 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> less cultural cohesion due to hyper diversity in memes resulting in fewer shared experiences People being different is bad?

Teenagers having the idea reinforced through social media that being different is bad, is bad. Left to their own devices, that is the default social order that children create.

What?

Merely existing on the playground, on the field, or in the cafeteria in the 80s and 90s reinforced the idea that being different was bad.

How is this unique to post-2012? At least Instagram doesn't hold you up against a chain-link fence while TikTok punches you in the gut for being different.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#266

Post by TchoBeer »

samtho wrote: post #39
NickM wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SSRI use has skyrocketed, and multiple meta-analyses have confirmed that they lead to an increase in suicidal thoughts and behavior when used by children and adolescents. I don't necessarily agree with the grandparent poster's point of view, as I do think there are big societal changes leading to decreased mental health that are unrelated to the way we treat mental illness...but I do think the increase in usage of ps…

> SSRI use has skyrocketed, and multiple meta-analyses have confirmed that they lead to an increase in suicidal thoughts and behavior when used by children and adolescents. The prevailing wisdom on this is that many people suffering major depression won’t even have the motivation to go through with suicide. Once the depression has begun to be treated, certain executive functions start to amplify giving sufferers newf…

I remember this stage when I started taking SSRIs when I was an older teenager. I was warned about it and was seeing a short-term therapist and so I dealt with it well, but there's a short 2-4 weeks where the crushing demotivation that has dominated your life is lifted but you still are stuck in the life-despising thought spirals. I assume that much of this can be mitigated by regular consultation with mental health for the first two month while trying a new medication, but it's possible that isn't true.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#267

Post by yamtaddle »

Loughla wrote: post #111
nluken wrote: post #79

While I don't doubt that social media can drive some of these mental health issues, I think most teenagers are simply stressed from the constant work that's necessary for the college admissions process. I'm 24, so I would have been a teenager in 2012, but I didn't have a smartphone until I was 16 or so. My high school experience consisted almost entirely of school, studying, and running (my primary extracurricular).…

>I think most teenagers are simply stressed from the constant work that's necessary for the college admissions process. I am 100% behind this, and a lot of my professional career has been spent in higher education, specifically working with college access programs for pre-college students. The amount of pressure kids are under today is just astounding. When I was looking at colleges, the pressure started slightly in…

> My oldest plays baseball, he started in kindergarten, and has played all the way to high school now. He loves the game, but we also made sure it was a game, not a job. All kids in his class who could afford it were on travel teams, starting in first grade. All but three have private coaches for whatever position they specialize in. . . starting in first grade. The parents sponsored tournaments. The parents made sure their travel team attended tournaments that college scouts or colleges sponsored. Starting in first grade. The kids on his school team (town population of around 1000, school k-12 enrollment is around 400) have literally played or practiced baseball every weekend, barring some holiday weekends, since they were 5 years old. That is not an exaggeration, it is a statement of fact.

This is one thing I've noticed about kids' sports, too, now that I have (youngish) kids and I'm trying to find sports for them. What used to be the low-end leagues—which were a bit serious, but not too much—seem to mostly be gone, with a new ultra-casual tier that didn't exist before replacing it, and then... nothing, until you're looking at really serious leagues with lots of travel and a huge time-commitment ([EDIT] yes, even for like 1st-graders).

All I can figure is parents' preferences changed—more of the half-serious players are pushed into the very-serious leagues now, for whatever reason, and the kinds of kids/parents who were always kinda unreliable and didn't seem to really have their hearts in it in the old-style somewhat-serious leagues are happier with the more-casual, even-lower-time-commitment replacement, leaving insufficient demand for what used to be just standard youth sports leagues.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#268

Post by mensetmanusman »

jahsome wrote: post #168
mouse_ wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guarantee most of these "high achieving high anxiety types" live with significantly less anxiety than customer service reps/bag handlers/food service workers.

Do you honestly see value in comparing scars? Does that matter in any meaningful way? The worst stress of someone's life is the worst stress of their life. It's unproductive and petty to bicker about who has it worse. If life is stressful for anyone, regardless of status, title, age, etc. there's a good chance it's undeserved. The takeaway is to treat people better, not dismiss their stressors as less significant.

Our new cultural leaders have convinced everyone to out-victim everyone else. The more of a victim you are the better.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#269

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

nradov wrote: post #218
jahsome wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you honestly see value in comparing scars? Does that matter in any meaningful way? The worst stress of someone's life is the worst stress of their life. It's unproductive and petty to bicker about who has it worse. If life is stressful for anyone, regardless of status, title, age, etc. there's a good chance it's undeserved. The takeaway is to treat people better, not dismiss their stressors as less significant.

I honestly see value in having scars, both the physical and mental varieties. Scars create resilience. We saw this during the recent pandemic. The upper-middle class "high achieving, high anxiety" types who had never faced any real danger or hardship were the most likely to panic and demand all sorts of ridiculous lockdowns and mandates, even though the vast majority of them were never at any significant risk. Wherea…

There is no evidence that scars are an inherently better tissue than non injured tissue. Torn ligaments, cut tendons, skin marring from burns, etc… these don’t bounce back 110% from their original.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#270

Post by derefr »

mouse_ wrote: post #148
thatfrenchguy wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re going to get a bias in here because a lot of folks are STEM focused / high achieving high anxiety types :)

I guarantee most of these "high achieving high anxiety types" live with significantly less anxiety than customer service reps/bag handlers/food service workers.

Taboo the word "anxiety" here — you're using it to mean "environmental stressors" while the GP is using it to mean "a psychological trait of not dealing well with such stressors, due to a higher baseline feeling of stress, and/or a magnified experience of stressors."

Compare/contrast: "living in exurban Detroit is depressing" (= has many environmental depressors) vs "poets are usually depressives" (= depressive disorders being common among people who choose to become poets.)

We use different words (most of the time) for these two things when speaking of depression, but often aren't so careful with anxiety.

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