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Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

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Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#261
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that now they're getting fined and being given legally-binding orders to stop.

It's not like they haven't been fined before, and continued doing shady shit. I'm sorry, but I have such a low opinion of Meta/Facebook/theZuck that none of this means anything positive to me. I am a much more pessimistic person regarding these kinds of things that I give no credence of benefit of doubt. I also don't trust these legally-binding orders as they are only legally binding until some sharp tongue lawyer fi…

From https://gdpr.eu/fines/

> The less severe infringements could result in a fine of up to €10 million, or 2% of the firm’s worldwide annual revenue from the preceding financial year, whichever amount is higher.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#262
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the vast majority of people don't have the equipment nor knowledge to be able to test whether the food they just bought isn't contaminated, Back in the late 1800's and early 1900's food companies actually tried to convince people that this was the right thing, instead of, you know, just selling unadulterated food. The argument was literally "if we just put 'borax' on some sort of ingredients list people can choose…

> People are awful at understanding their own risk profiles, especially in the face of advertising. Advertising is also regulated, by the government. The same one that regulates what goes inside of food. If the public is vulnerable to manipulation by advertising, the government is also vulnerable to manipulation by lobbying (remember the USDA "food pyramid" that put grains at the bottom due to industry lobbying?). Yo…

It's not inconsistent to say that the government has significantly more resistance to manipulation than a random person.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#263
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why do you think legislation should be the one forcing that choice on everyone, rather than the market allowing consumers to choose? The issue isn't what we personally like or prefer for ourselves -- it's more about when we think it's legitimate to take away the right of businesses to experiment with business models, and of consumers to be free to enter into the tradeoffs they prefer. Why shouldn't a consumer be…

Because having something priced as "free" is distorts the market. Consumers don't see immediately the price they pay for the product. There's plenty of experiments with people having to choose between something that is $1 in price difference and when both options are paid, people make a rational choice. However, when one of the options is free and the other cost 1$, a disproportionate amount of people choose the free…

> Because having something priced as "free" is distorts the market.

Only if you consider the "market" to only take price into account - which is a very simplistic model that most people don't adhere to.

You pay for things with your money, time, attention, and personal information. The only problem with the current market is that, while it's extremely easy to see monetary prices (due to effective government regulation, I might add), it's far more difficult (or impossible) to see those other three "prices". Were they equally visible, there would be no problem.

> There's plenty of experiments with people having to choose between something that is $1 in price difference and when both options are paid, people make a rational choice. However, when one of the options is free and the other cost 1$, a disproportionate amount of people choose the free option.

What's happening here is just a "rounding down" of a particular cost to zero, which isn't relevant if the associated cost isn't close to zero. Specifically, if the two options are (1) pay $1 for thing and (2) pay $0 but expose your IP address to the website, the latter option will get rounded down to zero the vast majority of the time because people usually don't care about their IP address being seen. However, if the two option are (1) pay $1 for that thing and (2) pay $0 but give them your real name, mailing address, email address, phone number, and SSN, and the buyer is aware of that upfront, there will not be the same asymmetry, because that private information does not round down to zero.

The correct solution is to regulate transparency such that, alongside the "free" sticker price, consumers see a very clear warning label "you will provide your full name, email address, and phone number, and these will be sold to 17 parties[link] for advertising purposes" - in other words, actually expose the privacy cost as part of the "sticker price" alongside the monetary cost.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Courts so far seem to mostly have decided that if you are clear and upfront, you can offer "track me" and "I’ll pay you not to track me" as the two options. Very common in Germany.

> Users must be able to withdraw consent at any time and Meta may not limit the service if users choose to do so. Not in this decision they did not. Meta is required to provide service even if you don't agree to the transaction.

Incorrect.

They are free to charge for the service.

They are not free to use personal data without consent.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the market" isn't some omnipotent magical force that inherently provides all options. Given the current status quo, it's pretty clear that "the market" isn't solving this problem. Legislation is needed because "the market" has failed to regulate itself. "the market" does not work for consumers, it's shaped for and by sellers. Left to its own devices, capitalism creates conditions that are explicitly harmful to the p…

>it's pretty clear that "the market" isn't solving this problem. Have you considered that it isn't being solved because consumers don't actually mind the extra tracking? All the tracking does is attempt to give them better ads. Better ads provide a better user experience. Personalized ads are a win win for both the company and the user.

If people don't care, then why is legislation being passed? There is little monetary benefit to a government to unilaterally enact this kind of legislation without public support or legitimate concern for public safety.

Privacy and data mining by corporations is a huge topic of discussion these days. Because the conversation doesn't enter your bubble, it doesn't mean it's not happening. You should look around more, find some diverse news outlets and actually get a sense of public opinion before making claims about it.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because someone has more material items than you doesn't mean your life is worse or that you are poor. Poverty isn't about how little you have to others - its about being able to provide and sustain yourself and your family in society. As far as I understand it, poverty is much less now than 100 years ago.

That’s lovely. It sounds like the kind of thing that would work well in a fortune cookie. Meanwhile, in the real world, we find that that’s not how happiness works at all. People want more than they used to have or they want more than the people around them. If they don’t, they aren’t happy. You can blame capitalism all you like, but this is a fundamental tenet of brain chemistry. No matter how well off we are, our d…

That's not true though if you look at at global "happiness" studies, it's not the countries with the highest individual material wealth which typically come out on top, but the countries with the least wealth inequality, usually the Scandinavian countries.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#267

As an EU citizen all I can say is: Get fucked. I hope the EU grows a spine and actually doubles down instead of bowing to US pressure. >Fine for Meta more than tenfold from € 28 million to € 390 million. Third case on WhatsApp pending. Starting to get into a range for the fine that makes sense. Give it another tenfold increase and I'm content.

[flagged]

No different than the commercials on broadcast tv before targeting.

Remember that in total no more diapers are sold regardless of these commercials, they just cause consumers to buy a specific brand. If advertising diapers no longer works, they’ll all just stop advertising and be better off.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#268

As an EU citizen all I can say is: Get fucked. I hope the EU grows a spine and actually doubles down instead of bowing to US pressure. >Fine for Meta more than tenfold from € 28 million to € 390 million. Third case on WhatsApp pending. Starting to get into a range for the fine that makes sense. Give it another tenfold increase and I'm content.

[flagged]

Well then openly ask users for consent. EU law does - in absolutely no way, shape or form - forbid targeted ads. What it does is it forces companies to specifically ask for consent before collecting data for such things and people must know that they're consenting to data collection specifically for ads.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#269

As an EU citizen all I can say is: Get fucked. I hope the EU grows a spine and actually doubles down instead of bowing to US pressure. >Fine for Meta more than tenfold from € 28 million to € 390 million. Third case on WhatsApp pending. Starting to get into a range for the fine that makes sense. Give it another tenfold increase and I'm content.

[flagged]

Diluting the value of advertising is a great thing! If it is truly a waste of money to buy advertising, manufacturers won't spend on it, and then none of us will have to watch dumb adult diaper ads, or pay extra money for our adult diapers to cover the advertising budget.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe is a museum at this point. Tourism is their future. What industrial sectors are left are protected by huge government subsidies and tariffs, but as energy goes up in price and their economic dynamism continues to fall, their future is keeping the capital cities pretty for US and Chinese to visit and take pictures. A friend of mine is a Norwegian in the US. He told me all the ambitious people in Norway scheme t…

Such derogatory commentary is not adding any value to the conversation. I would refrain from dismissing Europe's industry, and cities with such a tone. The most perplexing part in all of this is the stance that this thread seems to commend. Even more so, given the societal unrest seen in the USA. Just baffling.

> Even more so, given the societal unrest seen in the USA. Just baffling.

To be fair, the social unrest of the US fueled by social media & advertising is now exporting itself to other countries - starting with the English-speaking ones (since the content can be reused as-is) but it's just a matter of time before it consumes other countries too.

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