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Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

mattbruenig.com

261–270 of 510 posts

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#261
post #190
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No (potential) customer is required to make any company profitable.

And should a company be forced to subsidize a customer?

When said company is government subsidized said customer who is also a tax payer, yes. These companies use tax dollars for infrastructure investment and maintenance, at least here in CA.

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They took 7 months to install the panels. I'm sure times during all that the OP thought if they forgot about him, called them to ask for a installation date, etc. As a way to curb any thought about undue wait time, the company made a contract guaranteeing installation between 6 month after signing. They didn't comply and the loan lapsed. Now the company needed to negotiate a new contract with OP or go for the legal r…

> There is nothing unethical about this. I dont consider strong arming someone due to your now advantageous position against something you previously agreed upon and reasonably similarly delivered (7 months instead of 6, we're not talking about multiple years later here). A similar ethical framework would allow someone in marriage say "I quit my job, can get alimony from you, better do as I say or I'm filing for divo…

> (7 months instead of 6, we're not talking about multiple years later here)

So? Do you seriously think the solar company was ignorant of the loan terms? Was this their first job and they just didn't realize it?

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#263

Any1 built their own battery-arrays? I am interested in solar in part to avoid blackouts. But for that I will need batteries. And my house being 100% electric, tesla's powerwall quickly becomes expensive. On a first glance, using lead-acid batteries appears to be straightforward, but I wonder what edge-cases and gotchas others experienced with it. How much time is needed to maintain it. So far 10kW gas generator was…

The DIY part of the solar market and now most none Tesla options have moved towards Lithium Phosphate batteries, particularly in rack mount format. They're denser and way easier to handle then lead acid.

30kwh of batteries is about $10k wholesale, and inverters run about $1500, although most of the time you need 2 if you want to supply 240v.

Sample system: https://signaturesolar.com/off-grid-eg4-system-13kw-120-240v...

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#264
post #109

Assuming you are grid-tied, the reduction of electric bills is predicated on net metering, where the utility company gives you (ideally) 1-for-1 credit for the electricity you produce. In California, this was called NEM 1.0 and NEM 2.0. Every few years the California utilities lobby the Public Utilities Commission (PUC) to chip away at the NEM program. This year the PUC voted unanimously to cut net energy metering an…

Was the California grid always private or was it run by the state government at one point? To me it makes no sense to privatize services where no competition is possible. You just end up with perverse incentives to do stuff like the above.

The vast minority of utilities in the United States, by number of customers served, are investor-owned; publicly-owned and co-operative utilities only cover 50m people.[1]

Theoretically, the grid is supervised by the California Public Utilities Commission, which has wide latitude to set standards and regulations for PG&E and others. The Public Utility Code is the highest law in the state of California[2], so IMHO a large part of the blame for PG&E's failures fall on CPUC's failed oversight[3][4]

[1]: https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=40913

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Public_Utilities_Co...

[3]: http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/CPUC-head-Michael-Peev...

[4]: https://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/pge-probation-lift...

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#265
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps instead of being angry that people are using taxes that come from the working class, instead you should ask why the wealthy aren't paying their share of the taxes? And nobody pays for anything with inflation. That's not how inflation works.

"The top 1 percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (38.8 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (29.2 percent)."[1] How is that not paying their share? [1] https://taxfoundation.org/publications/latest-federal-income...

Well, given that the top 1% in the US owns over 43% of all wealth (numbers as of 2011), and who by definition are getting a bigger benefit from all the infrastructure and protections of the system than everyone else, not seeing how a 38.8% contribution of total tax income is anything but a distortion favoring the wealthy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_Unite...

Particularly since you carefully ignore that income is typically small fraction of the wealth of the 1%, most of which is capital and which largely escapes taxation.

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#266
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you generate excess energy, can you store it for a later time when you need more energy (presumably summer time)?

While you wait decades for home battery storage technology to improve, you can make a water battery in the meantime with a few things from the hardware store. https://hackaday.com/2021/10/08/power-your-home-with-a-water...

This system only had enough power to run a small light, IIRC.

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#267
post #109

Assuming you are grid-tied, the reduction of electric bills is predicated on net metering, where the utility company gives you (ideally) 1-for-1 credit for the electricity you produce. In California, this was called NEM 1.0 and NEM 2.0. Every few years the California utilities lobby the Public Utilities Commission (PUC) to chip away at the NEM program. This year the PUC voted unanimously to cut net energy metering an…

Net metering just doesn't make sense though. Everyone who wants to rely on the grid for power availability ought to pay for grid upkeep costs. Net metering would make sense if it came on top of a baseline "connectivity fee" that covered grid maintenance, but that's not the current policy, would likely be politically infeasible, and would hurt rooftop solar customers financially anyway. Subsidizing solar is a perfectl…

Just be glad your not in the UK. I pay 35p / kWh down and get only 5p / kWh for excess I sell to grid through Smart Export Guarantee. Price down has doubled in two years and way up has hardly moved.

I joked with my neighbour that we should wire up our homes and sell my excess to him at mid point and we would both be better off.

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#268
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is technically true, but why is no one asking how and why his electricity bill is $223 at minimum, plied higher since the bill was only reduced by that amount. Also, “subsidies” are really just a quaint term for “made the working and lower middle class that can’t pay for such exorbitant luxuries pay for it through taxes and inflation”. I’m always a bit confused if seemingly otherwise smart people simply don’t un…

> I’m always a bit confused if seemingly otherwise smart people simply don’t understand something so basic Are you surprised, truly? All right, I’ll play along. We have a progressive tax system. So the majority of the costs are born by the wealthy and the well-off, rather than the working class. Some of the well-to-do got that way by grit and hard work; others by luck; and at least a few by fraud and worse. They’re t…

Sort of. The literal tax bracket for earned income is progressive. But due to lower tax rates for certain other types of income, and the ability for the ultra rich to utilize the tax code to the fullest, the net effect is that the actual overall tax rates are progressive at the bottom end, and regressive at the top end.

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#269

> The unsubsidized all-in price for buying and installing the panels was $25,525.43... after counting this $6,636.61 tax credit, the subsidized price was $18,888.82 Looks like a 7 year return on investment after subsidies, 10 years without.

I'm not affiliated, but Solar Wholesale is a DIY that can be 1/4 the cost of hiring a contractor: https://www.solarwholesale.com Even the wiring is DIY. Most people think this requires a lot of skill, but you are just adding an input to your panel board on your house.

Thank you so much for mentioning this. Their offering looks compelling and interesting.

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#270

Can somebody explain where the return on investment comes from in residential solar? It just strikes me that if there was easy money to be had on solar installations, we'd just get tons of utility scale solar installs (which would likely by more capital efficient) and my utility bill would over time converge on the expected total utility bill for a home with residential solar. Is it just because we're in that transit…

To be fair, there is a lot of grid scale solar (and wind) being built, largely because they are the cheapest way to add generation capacity right now. But they are not a simple pluggable replacement for gas, coal, or nuclear, because they deliver power to the utility grid when the weather dictates power is available, not when the utilities demand dictates they need it. Utilities struggle once the fraction of their power supplied by these "interruptible sources" gets over 1/4 or so of their total generation base. As far as I know, the only regional-scale grids that have gone completely to renewables are Tasmania and Iceland. South Australia is not far behind, and Scotland not far behind them. But each has special circumstances that make it an easier lift. Tasmania and Iceland have abundant hydro and geothermal, which are ideal complements to interruptible renewables, because they can be quickly throttled up and down as required, as the interruptibles wax and wane. South Australia has highly reliable sunshine and wind, and so have been able to bridge the stochasticity of these with relatively manageable sized batteries (and a couple of flywheel installations to provide very short term momentum based frequency control). Scotland has highly reliable wind, and is headed in the same direction as South Australia.
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