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Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

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261–270 of 683 posts

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#261
post #71

So I have been rejected and "banned" from a MSG venue. It's not fun, and it has nothing to do with your behavior. It was at the Chicago Theather and it was the Chris Rock show back in 2017. I bought the ticket, I don't believe that it had any special restrictions [this was a long time ago], the ticket had no indications about the "phoneless"/phone encasing demand. The event page didn't say anything about this. Howeve…

The yondr device looks like it could be defeated with a magnet or a sharp knife.

Places that use Yondr also make you go through airport-like security and won't allow either of those things in.

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#262

I’m thrilled to see facial recognition applied against people in a position to speak out loudly against it. A lot of people seem OK with it when it’s policing the bad parts of town. This is their reminder that it can be used against them, too.

> it can be used against them, too Is it facial recognition that's the problem here, or the policy itself? In theory, they could hand out pictures of everybody who wasn't allowed in to the security staff and use low-tech facial recognition to enforce the same policy - assuming it was scalable, would it be OK then? I remember reading that IBM got into trouble when it first computerized its personnel files because some…

You're right: it's the policy that's bad. However, facial recognition is what makes enforcing that policy possible, and society and the law haven't changed quickly enough to deal with the repercussions.

For instance, say 18 year old "Joe" gets caught stealing soda from a fast food place. The manager kicks him out and bans him from the store. Fast forward a decade, when Joe walks back into the store with his wife and kid to buy a quick meal.

Without facial recognition: Joe's grown up and matured. The manager was either replaced years ago, or doesn't remember the incident, or vaguely remembers but doesn't care about it anymore. Joe and his family pay, eat, and leave.

With facial recognition: the system notices that someone on its "do not allow" list has entered the store and summons police to deal with the trespasser.

When human judgment is involved, we rarely deal with absolutes. A lifetime ban isn't really for life. It's until both parties grow up and the situation cools down. A ban on a competitor's employees isn't absolute. Maybe you won't serve the owner, but if his dishwasher comes to your place on a date, you're not gonna hassle the kid. We're really, really bad at designing automated systems that handle nuance. It's way easier to write code like `if photo_hash in banned_people: ...`.

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your totally ignore the key element here: a new technology is allowing denying entry at a whole new scale. Nobody really has an objection to organization blocking a single individual who is might cause trouble. But blocking an entire class of people is a) newly enabled* and b) much more harmful to society. So you're okay with the principle of denying individuals entry to a private business, but you're NOT okay with…

You missed the point. They're okay with the principle, AND they're okay with the technology, what they're NOT okay with is using the technology to microneedle and retaliate against tangentially innocent people. The technology didn't decide to single the lawyer out, some manager or legal person did. It's not the tech that is wrong, it's the people's use of it.

eh, kind of both.

When you invent a hammer someone is going to use it to hit someone else over the head with it. It is an unavoidable foregone conclusion. Now, instead of a hammer in which society thinks they are useful and that anyone should have one, lets look at more controversial things like guns. In the US we tend to think everyone should have one, other countries tend to think the opposite, and are crime statistics reflect that.

And I would hold the same is true when it comes to 'business crimes'. The US will likely uphold that businesses can use advanced technology against the general public, and countries in the EU will more than likely prevent businesses from discriminating with it.

There is a reason we have laws regarding technologies. People will abuse them and the law is there to punish those who are abusers.

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#264
post #35

I am torn actually unsure on what would be morally correct: 1. I, as an individual, am allowed to deny entry to persons I dislike from my private property. 2. I, as an individual, am allowed to deny entry to persons affiliated with a business I dislike from my private property. 3. I, as a business owner (eg: a restaurant), am allowed to deny entry to persons I dislike (eg: a previous patron who was violent) from my b…

Your totally ignore the key element here: a new technology is allowing denying entry at a whole new scale. Nobody really has an objection to organization blocking a single individual who is might cause trouble. But blocking an entire class of people is a) newly enabled* and b) much more harmful to society. If a venue kicked out a lawyer who was actively working on a lawsuit against the venue, nobody would bat an eye.…

>>Your totally ignore the key element here: a new technology is allowing denying entry at a whole new scale

I actually don't see that as the key element at all - Doing something that is already legal, faster, doesn't make it illegal does it?

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#265

I’m thrilled to see facial recognition applied against people in a position to speak out loudly against it. A lot of people seem OK with it when it’s policing the bad parts of town. This is their reminder that it can be used against them, too.

I don't think what a lot of people think about facial recognition is very relevant for its adoption or evolution? CCTV and facial recognition are both used around the world accross cultures and political systems and not 1 citizen voted for (or against) them. Not in totalitarian regimes nor in countries that pretend to be democratic.

Democracies have more luck voting against them: https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Oakland-bans-use...

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#266
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://journaltimes.com/news/local/he-had-a-bud-light-now-h... Fired for driking Bud Light. Is that even beer I ask as a German...

Legally speaking, it is beer.

Says so right on the label: "Technically, beer!"

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#267

With the merge being approved, there were now only four Corporations. Sure, there were many off-world Corps, but they didn't have any meaningful affiliations and were really just a novelty for Roamers. Everyone, from birth, was employed by a Corp. Mind you, employment doesn't endow a title, salary, benefits, or duties. It just meant you were permitted access the various amenities it provided: transportation, tech, te…

William Gibson?

Just "inspired" by the article and the potential implications of companies buying companies and finding yourself no-longer permitted in some establishment.

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#268
post #228

This reminds me of an incident that showed up in one of my college courses: A forklift driver who got fired for drinking Budweiser. He worked for a company that Miller Brewing company contacted with and a newspaper took a photo of him at a public event drinking Budweiser. Different situation, same kind of pettiness and retaliation.

https://journaltimes.com/news/local/he-had-a-bud-light-now-h... Fired for driking Bud Light. Is that even beer I ask as a German...

This joke is typically boring, but you've raised it to the height of "in poor taste" by wielding it to segue out of the serious subject of a man losing his job.

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#269
post #203

A lawyer was banned from seeing a popular show for reasons entirely unrelated to physical safety, with an FR twist. She then hit back at their liquor license. Who's got popcorn??

The hit back at the liquor license (which apparently requires admitting the general public, with only very specific exceptions) sounded pretty clever to me.

It's a hack in a domain in which I am not a hacker! Makes me feel vulnerable.

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#270
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Credit card chargeback.

That would have invalidated my other tickets held by Ticketmaster. I think I held a Metallica ticket at the time. (Metallica let me into solder field with a Lecia Lumix LX10)

Funny about Metallica. They went from being one of the lead crusaders that brought Napster down, to now releasing their new music with no restrictions, and allowing filming at their concerts, because they have realized that on balance they are gaining more from the publicity than they lose on music sales.
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