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How to sell tickets fairly

barnabas.me

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Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#261

Post by swores »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #219
silvestrov wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is the old trope that McDonalds is primarily a real estate business. In the same line of thinking, you could say Ticketmaster is a "scape goat" business so the artists and venues can get max profit while still coming of as innocent angels. It is now all Ticketmaster's fault. Venues and artists are innocent. This would explain why you can't fix it: where would the scapegoating go? When you have larger demand tha…

I guess I see the entertainment industry in two tiers. There are the mega-stars like Taylor Swift, etc. that occupy one tier, and then the majority off smaller artists, up and coming artists that represent the lower, if you like, strata. Perhaps you are describing, and perhaps the author are tackling the upper strata. For myself, I swore off big venues decades ago. If I am unable to set my beer behind the monitor spe…

> Connecting artists and venue owners with a web portal, allowing ticket sales to fans via the same site shouldn't be heavy lifting for a lot of the readers on HN.

The tricky part isn't making the website, it's persuading enough people on both sides of the equation that your business is a better option compared to alternatives.

And despite the situation with Ticketmaster it's not like they're literally the only tool available in a market waiting for a second option - there's already lots of much smaller ticket-selling options that you'd be competing with, ranging from single person PHP websites you can host yourself to companies with significant traction in their niches that are like Ticketmaster just much, much smaller.

That's not to say that an idea like yours couldn't succeed, but the fact that lots of people could do the coding doesn't make it a likely, or easy, business to make successful.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#262

Post by Spooky23 »

silvestrov wrote: post #199
buro9 wrote: post #154

The proposed idea is a technical one that doesn't work for the promoters or artists or venues. The promoters want to know very early whether the venue is the right one for the number attending and whether to upsize, add dates, or even to go the other way to a smaller venue. The time to book a venue is very long... So they need as complete data as they can about sales as early as possible (they would love if 80% of th…

There is the old trope that McDonalds is primarily a real estate business. In the same line of thinking, you could say Ticketmaster is a "scape goat" business so the artists and venues can get max profit while still coming of as innocent angels. It is now all Ticketmaster's fault. Venues and artists are innocent. This would explain why you can't fix it: where would the scapegoating go? When you have larger demand tha…

The problem with Ticketmaster is the same as any consolidation play. If you let a middleman control the wholesale and retail side of the transaction, you’re gonna get a bad deal.

The solution is really simple, but the government no longer has the regulatory ability to do anything. You segment the distributor function from the retail, and end up with a bunch of retailers running volume driven low margin sales channels.

Ticketmaster brilliantly positioned itself as distributor, retailer and supplier for resale. So they have an exclusive on a venue, get a fee for the sale, get a seller commission for the resale, and a buyers fee for the resale. They “own” the customer and the venue.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#263

Post by qeternity »

onion2k wrote: post #176

Starting at $2000 for a concert where demand outstrips supply to the point where people will pay $4000 to a ticket scalper just means the minimum ticket price will be $2000. All the tickets will still sell out immediately. The audience will be entirely made up of wealthy people, or people who are willing to break the bank to see Taylor sing. The only "fair" way to sell a good that's in high demand and you want everyo…

> The only "fair" way to sell a good that's in high demand and you want everyone to have the same level of access regardless of their background is a lottery.

After centuries of failing to manipulate natural market forces, I don’t understand why people continue to think it’s possible. All that a lottery does is incentivize everyone to participate, even those who have no interest in going. Then a secondary market will engage in actual price discovery and you’re left with the current system.

There is really no way to beat the system. Prices are what people are willing to pay. I’m not sure how any other system is fairer? Let’s say I’m a middle class Taylor Swift mega fan and save up for years to drop $4k on a ticket. Instead, we move to a lottery system and I don’t get picked. I want to go way more than most people, as evidenced by the amount I’m willing to pay. But now I don’t get to go. How is that fair?

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#264

Post by [deleted] »

dqpb wrote: post #248
deanc wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s really easy in many European countries to prevent identity abuse. In Finland there is a system called “strong authentication” where you log in with your bank. It’s directly tied to your social security number and banks do a very strict job of identifying you in person before you open your accounts. It works and I’ve not heard of anyone gaming this system. It’s used by the banks themselves, the government, tax of…

Lotteries aren't fair.

[deleted]

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#265

Post by kjrose »

coffeefirst wrote: post #166
mahkeiro wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are sure to sell out you want to invest in such a system as this is the best way to extract maximum money from your fans. You still have a chance to sell out in the first days for multiple time the usual price. This system is not used as it will be seen very negatively by fans.

Except extracting as many dollars as possible isn’t the goal. Many bands try to keep their tickets affordable. The solution is to break up Ticketmaster. The companies they gobbled up handled this fine. Imperfectly, sometimes shoes sold out in minutes, but the prices and the fees were fair, and Will Call can wipe out the scalpers.

How does will call wipe out scalpers? I have never heard that before. I would love to hear the explanation.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#266

Post by kjrose »

buro9 wrote: post #154

The proposed idea is a technical one that doesn't work for the promoters or artists or venues. The promoters want to know very early whether the venue is the right one for the number attending and whether to upsize, add dates, or even to go the other way to a smaller venue. The time to book a venue is very long... So they need as complete data as they can about sales as early as possible (they would love if 80% of th…

For music or artist based shows I agree.

However this could work really well for sporting events. The Leafs usually sell out all of their tickets and a good number to scalpers, having at least a more legit way to buy tickets for a game would be helpful

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#267

Post by justinlkarr »

judge2020 wrote: post #127
justinlkarr wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In New York State, it is illegal to prohibit the transfer of tickets, which complicates most obvious approaches to stopping scalpers. https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/ACA/25.30

If I'm not mistaken, this[0] seems to be a commentary on the law. As I understand it after having read that article, the law seems to be in an effort to encourage reselling by the regular person in case of travel/event plans changing, while introducing fines to prohibit egregious scalpers. However, it seems it's just some fines for these activities, and I can't find any case where scalpers were convicted and fined un…

Ice is the old practice of producers (aka rights holders) or box office staff taking tips to make tickets available to resellers. This is illegal and is not common anymore. The era of computerized ticketing has made it much harder to do.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#268

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

onion2k wrote: post #176

Starting at $2000 for a concert where demand outstrips supply to the point where people will pay $4000 to a ticket scalper just means the minimum ticket price will be $2000. All the tickets will still sell out immediately. The audience will be entirely made up of wealthy people, or people who are willing to break the bank to see Taylor sing. The only "fair" way to sell a good that's in high demand and you want everyo…

> Accept that tickets are a luxury item, like Ferraris.

Exactly. High demand and low supply means not everyone gets to see Taylor Swift. That's life. I don't see the issue.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#269

Post by justinlkarr »

bombcar wrote: post #125
justinlkarr wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In New York State, it is illegal to prohibit the transfer of tickets, which complicates most obvious approaches to stopping scalpers. https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/ACA/25.30

This appears to mainly apply to season tickets and subscription-based tickets, at least at first glance.

Look at paragraph (c), a little pro-reseller nugget buried in an otherwise very consumer friendly law. That paragraph is the reason obvious anti-scalping practices can't work in one of the US's largest live event markets.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#270

Post by sdenton4 »

kjrose wrote: post #265
coffeefirst wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except extracting as many dollars as possible isn’t the goal. Many bands try to keep their tickets affordable. The solution is to break up Ticketmaster. The companies they gobbled up handled this fine. Imperfectly, sometimes shoes sold out in minutes, but the prices and the fees were fair, and Will Call can wipe out the scalpers.

How does will call wipe out scalpers? I have never heard that before. I would love to hear the explanation.

Check IDs before handing over the tickets. Cuts resale to in line at the event, which tanks the efficiency of the resale market.
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