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Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year

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Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year

#261

Post by benhurmarcel »

IIAOPSW wrote: post #15
Bakary wrote: post #3

I can definitely understand not realizing that you could lose access to your account if you lose your phone number. But once it happens the first time, could you not pick any free email that does not require 2FA, and warn fellow homeless to avoid gmail? I disagree with the idea that because a very, very niche audience is in dire straits that the design decisions should be based on their needs. The forced 2FA system h…

The phone number decision is stupid. I up and jump countries every few years. Each time, I'm switching to a new number. I'm the opposite of homeless, I'm that jet set elite. The idea that you want, need, should or will tie your identity to a phone number where people can always reach you is long outdated.

I've lived in different countries along the years, it's simple and best to just keep a permanent phone number in the country you consider the most like "home". Get a cheap phone-only plan, stick the SIM into a dumbphone or your second SIM slot. Done.

Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year

#262

Post by xen0 »

There is a huge disconnect between two types of companies.

The majority of companies seem to view email addresses and phone numbers as largely permanent identifiers.

Then there are the companies that actually provide you those things. To them, what they provide you is definitely not permanent.

Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year

#263

Post by bombcar »

acdha wrote: post #258
bombcar wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I told you that you had a bunch of forms to fill out, and after doing all the work you'd get no money (and it would all go to your hated ex-wife or something), you might not bother doing it.

First, anyone skipping out on their responsibilities shouldn’t be getting a sympathetic reaction (and, yeah, I know they always have stories about how it’s justified in their case - my dad spent a lot of time hanging out with other deadbeats but every time details came out, surprise, surprise, they were leaving out a lot). Paying people under the table has a lot of potential liability for you and it almost always cat…

Sure - all of those are true; just explaining why someone might not sign up for social security, even if the reasons don't actually pan out.

Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year

#264

Post by bombcar »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #250
bombcar wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is unfortunately common. We're not perfectly rational robots, and so for a decent subset of the population, they go off what has happened to them. And being paid $1k and assuming they'd have $1k and then discovering they only had $500 because of garnishment tells them "don't accept checks, cash is the only safe method". And then it's not a step much further to be "it's not worth setting up social security because…

You do realize jail isn't some magical unifying force of social justice right? A while back a guy destroyed a vehicle of mine and drove off. Per criminal law in my jurisdiction, he should have served at least 45 days for that offense. But it isn't like that would ever give me my property back. It's also unlikely to deter that particular crime in the population.

Sure, jail isn't a solution in many cases, but fines aren't either.

Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year

#266

Post by arubania2 »

paganel wrote: post #148
everdrive wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now, technology has reached a point where it's expected to be ubiquitous, however is not as accessible as other ubiquitous and necessary services. This has been brought up before, buy can someone in their 70s keep up with the changing UIs and websites and security requirements these days? This is all fine for something like Netflix or Spotify. But for government services, access to jobs, and fundamental communi…

> someone in their 70s keep I'm in my early 40s, computer programmer, and I've temporarily lost access to my WhatsApp account because I don't have a recent enough mobile phone, and the phone that I do have doesn't have a relatively recent OS installed. It's a 4-year old (I think I've got it for 4 years) iPhone SE, on which I never updated the OS because I hadn't feel the need to do it. When I started getting pop-ups…

What‘s your speciality in programming?

Keeping all your software, and that includes the OS, up to date, is one of the most important aspects of personal security.

Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year

#267

Post by [deleted] »

stevesearer wrote: post #46
angry_octet wrote: post #19

This problem, and the not-my-problem responses, really highlight the self centered mindset we have encouraged. What if that homeless person was your substance-abusing sibling? A friend from school with mental health issues? We need to collectively take more responsibility for those in the worst situations. If you've every tried to teach an old person how to use 2FA you know it's an uphill battle. Using a fingerprint…

My dad helps people navigate the system to find housing. Recent story was a 65yo + veteran living in a shelter. They hadn’t started collecting social security due to some debts and was worried it would ALL be garnished. After explaining that veterans get expedited in line for housing and that they would still get almost all of their SS, they have applied for it and should be housed soon. It doesn’t surprise me at all…

[deleted]

Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year

#268

Post by Bakary »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #199
Bakary wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is missing the forest for the trees. Of course we'd be more emotionally involved if it was someone we knew, that's not hypocritical. Most people aren't against fixing societal problems, either. As it stands, homelessness is definitely something that affects a ton of people so it definitely is our problem as long as we are city dwellers. The problem here is that misapplied empathy can lead to terrible decisions.…

I like your comment because it gradually stumbles upon the actual solution. We aren't being ambitious enough, but developing a device designed to be harder to steal or lose is timidly incremental. By the last paragraph, we're talking about ending homelessness entirely. That is an ambitious — but achievable! — goal, and one that actually addresses the root of the problem.

If you mean a stumble in the sense that I'm not truly aware of the implications of what I'm proposing, that's not really the case. I personally believe we could be yet more ambitious than what I am describing here, but I realize that most people aren't going to be on board. So the next best thing is to propose a different framework of looking at the problem and a different methodology for looking for solutions. A dedicated device would be incremental, yes, but what matters is that if we unlock the capacity to think towards this sort of innovation the big changes will follow naturally.

Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year

#269

Post by awinder »

ranger_danger wrote: post #143
awinder wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gmail offers all of these (except for the second email address): paper backup codes, hardware authenticators, non-Google/gmail authenticator apps. The problem is that homeless people can/do routinely lose the “thing you have” part of 2fa.

Huh? Gmail most certainly supports paper codes, hardware authenticators, and non-google auth apps.

Ugh yeah that was punctuation hell, updated

Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year

#270

Post by newaccount2021 »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #209
warent wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately it's more complicated than this. There have been nonprofit organizations and government initiatives to give homeless people space in unoccupied hotels for example. What ends up happening is they generally just destroy the living space in a variety of ways. It's because the majority of homelessness is an issue of mental health. In the USA, there are pretty much zero mental health resources for people in…

The problem is multifaceted. And homeless people are not a monolith. There are large cohorts for whom simply receiving a home would make life significantly easier.

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