Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day • Hacker News Board

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#261

Post by fffobar » Tue, Sep 27, 2022, 4:18 PM UTC

LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #188

fffobar wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Baltic Sea is very very shallow, with average depth of just 55 meters. It's not particularly difficult to do, sadly :( "Fun" fact, mostly unrelated: the Baltic sea floor is full of unexploded munitions from WW2, and some (still?) contained chemical weapons.

I'd think they would have cleared them before, instead of blindly laying some pipes in 'good faith'.

Oh I'm sure it's cleared enough around the various pipes and cables that lie on the bottom. But it's still a far cry from the entire bottom of the sea being safe.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#262

Post by origin_path » Tue, Sep 27, 2022, 4:37 PM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #206

wobbleblob wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that obvious? It's to strengthen Germany's resolve. The temptation to surrender and get the gas turned back on is going to be enormous this coming winter. Germany and several other countries have made plans to shut down parts of heavy industry to save gas for heating. This is more than likely to put increasing pressure on governments to give in to Russia's demands. Now they can't, even if they want to, so that…

This is not correct. Nordstream II is fully functional and can carry far more gas. This "accident" allows Russia to turn up the pressure on Germany without formally exiting it's contract. It creates plausible deniability for when they pressure Germany to pressure Ukraine to accept a ceasefire.

NS2 has also been taken out.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#263

Post by alwayseasy » Tue, Sep 27, 2022, 4:40 PM UTC

aa-jv wrote: post #192

alwayseasy wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, Russian propaganda talking points disguised as an analysis don't really bring value to the discussion.

Which talking points are those?

The constant repeating of "The US are making money off Europe's back" implying any sanction against Russia is economically irrational for the EU.

Like any effective propaganda talking point, it seems to make intuitive sense... but is completely empty and only serves to divide the European public opinion when you look at facts.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#264

Post by CentralHarvest » Tue, Sep 27, 2022, 4:52 PM UTC

aa-jv wrote: post #158

cassianoleal wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A conspiracy (...) is a secret plan or agreement between persons (called conspirers or conspirators) for an unlawful or harmful purpose, (...) especially with political motivation, while keeping their agreement secret from the public or from other people affected by it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy It is a conspiracy.

Not a conspiracy: Biden himself stated - quite publically - that they would do it. It has been done. Did you not read the quote? Besides which, the US unilaterally gives itself the right to do these sorts of things at its own discretion on a regular basis.

It's certainly a conspiracy in the sense that the USA and its functionaries are not going to be coming out and directly saying "sure, we blew up Nordstream to remove a Russian bargaining chip and prevent Germany from suing for peace."

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#265

Post by CentralHarvest » Tue, Sep 27, 2022, 5:06 PM UTC

lm28469 wrote: post #214

I bet my left nut that in 50 years we'll learn it was a US operation https://youtu.be/OS4O8rGRLf8?t=95

U.S. Undersecretary of State Victoria Nuland: "If Russia invades Ukraine, one way or another, Nord Stream 2 will not move forward." https://twitter.com/StateDept/status/1486818088016355336

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#266

Post by rightbyte » Tue, Sep 27, 2022, 5:38 PM UTC

sudden_dystopia wrote: post #119

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, eu gets fucked, no incentive for peace talks, less weapons for ukraine, ukraine gets fucked,... you must be an american, since they're the only ones who profit from all this.

Profit until the plan goes sideways and we all die in nuclear war. Those bellicose US politicians damn well better have some real good secret weapons/defense systems they are keeping under wraps.

Maybe. But I don't think they share it with us in Europe ...

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#267

Post by justsomehnguy » Tue, Sep 27, 2022, 5:45 PM UTC

loxdalen wrote: post #230

Can anyone inform me why there is gas in both the pipes when they are in maintenance/not yet in use/no gas is being delivered by russia. Do they always have to be filled with gas for some reason?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBq5uapC-e0

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#268

Post by 2-718-281-828 » Tue, Sep 27, 2022, 5:56 PM UTC

lm28469 wrote: post #214

I bet my left nut that in 50 years we'll learn it was a US operation https://youtu.be/OS4O8rGRLf8?t=95

nice one - and saying that right next to Scholz. what I'm wondering is - what would even be the incentive to Russia? there is no gas flowing anyway and they would be the first to have it going again while in total control how much gas is going through it at any moment in time. also it gives them bargaining leverage if gas is flowing. why would Russia do that? if they want to mess with German energy on a meta level they can just play the "turbine is broken"-game again.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#269

Post by 2-718-281-828 » Tue, Sep 27, 2022, 5:58 PM UTC

funnym0nk3y wrote: post #254

I don't think this was some kind of psy op to drive a wedge between NATO countries as there aren't any benefits from that in the current situation. The only situation my tin foil hat could imagine this being useful is in the event of much stronger tension (like the constant threat of using nukes). This would need a coordinated reaction in which distrust could be fatal. For supplying weapons or sanctions that distrust…

how does Russia benefit of destroying those pipelines, though?

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#270

Post by 2-718-281-828 » Tue, Sep 27, 2022, 6:01 PM UTC

RandomLensman wrote: post #73

wobbleblob wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that obvious? It's to strengthen Germany's resolve. The temptation to surrender and get the gas turned back on is going to be enormous this coming winter. Germany and several other countries have made plans to shut down parts of heavy industry to save gas for heating. This is more than likely to put increasing pressure on governments to give in to Russia's demands. Now they can't, even if they want to, so that…

There really isn't anywhere close to something like a median voter wanting to get the gas flowing from Russia again in Germany - now or in the winter. A government giving in to the more fringy hard right/hard left asking for that would not survive. The German-Russian relationship has been damaged for decades to come now.

> or in the winter

well, wait for the winter ... Germans aren't used to hardship and many more are critical for compromising comfort for Ukraine than Tagesschau and heute journal would like to make you believe.