Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch • Hacker News Board

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#261

Post by winrid » Tue, Sep 06, 2022, 8:59 PM UTC

nottorp wrote: post #260

winrid wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on what metric? I play with new cars that come out, every year, for fairly low speed technical driving competitions. I get to try a lot of models. The CVTs always overheat. Always. I bring a spray bottle of water to cool the radiator down between runs (the CVT cooling is piped into the rad). The current Hyundai's and Kias using traditional six speed autos never overheat. The Spark is one of my favorite cars to…

I wouldn't like an automatic for any kind of sporty driving, even just going on mountain roads at the speed limit :) Love CVTs in city traffic though. Interesting how everyone who answered thought I don't like CVTs. I was just pointing out the discrepancy.

That's because you just aren't pushing the car enough to have fun ;) I get to push these cars to their limit, in dirt courses. Lots of rear end sliding around and trying to be as fast as possible. Very fun no matter how much power or what transmission!

I would definitely prefer a manual. Just don't always get to choose.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#262

Post by LorenPechtel » Tue, Sep 06, 2022, 9:04 PM UTC

bryanlarsen wrote: post #220

LorenPechtel wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree--I used to have that objection with automatics, but the modern ones are good enough I no longer feel that way. Never have I felt my Corolla made the wrong choice about gears.

It's the lag on the accelerator pedal that I think of when I think of mush.

That's what I was thinking of, also--and I don't see it in my Corolla. It's always at least as good as the manual I drove before. It's got two downshifts rather than a paddle shifter, but since I discovered the cruise control does a better job than downshifting I haven't used them at all. The only case the cruise control doesn't handle is that for some reason it drops out at 28mph--I'm guessing it's a limit in the adaptive tracking. Thus you can't use cruise control to hold it to 25 mph going downhill.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#263

Post by kurupt213 » Tue, Sep 06, 2022, 9:45 PM UTC

A transfer case with a clutch and manual shifter…is innovative enough for a patent?

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#264

Post by kcexn » Tue, Sep 06, 2022, 10:00 PM UTC

quintushoratius wrote: post #236

kcexn wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Constant speeds on the highway should be the most efficient forms of driving. The only force the motors need to generate is the force required to overcome air resistance, this is going to be true of both ICE and electric. The range dip may instead be because of lower battery temperatures (from all of the wind). Better battery thermal management at high speeds might help. Higher energy density batteries will also comf…

To the contrary, the dip in range highlights that, as you increase speed, air resistance rises as a square. Our Leaf could probably go almost 50% farther on a charge if we never exceeded 30 mph. 30-40 mph has a small penalty; freeway speeds exact a much larger penalty.

It increases as the square of air resistance compared to traveling at low but constant speeds.

But I find that when I'm driving at lower speeds I'm constantly stopping and starting for traffic.

Around where I live there are many roads posted at 80km/h (50mph) with traffic lights every km or so. So it's accelerate to 80 for a couple minutes, then come to a complete stop, then accelerate back to 80. That's clearly what swallows up most of the range.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#265

Post by salmo » Tue, Sep 06, 2022, 11:06 PM UTC

raxxorraxor wrote: post #254

salmo wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It all depends on the clutch to me. My ADHD is so satisfied by a manual. I’m engaged in the machine. It’s fun and you don’t need a real sports car. But paddle shifters do nothing for me. There’s no feel to it. It’s more like 3 on the tree. If the clutch gives it feel and control, I’m in. Sadly, finding a real manual is hard these days. Most cars don’t offer them. My Honda is stuck in 1 package with a mid-2000s style…

A few years ago a manual could really help to fine tune car performance, but a modern automatic transmission is just superior to anyone switching gears. Especially if you have a strong motor with a high torque that can polish any slip clutch in a second. I would really like a modern car without shitty media systems. A desktop PC with mouse and keyboard would be awesome, directly attached to any sensor periphery and t…

Oh, totally agree. It’s not a performance thing for me. I don’t have a fancy car, just enjoy the activity.

I mostly envy the nav on my wife’s Apple Car Play. Otherwise it’s just a running map and an album art display.

We use Waze for interstate travel and Google Maps for local. It’s nicer than a “nav package” or my phone holder. Otherwise, I’m happy with whatever let’s me listen to my tunes and podcasts.

But I don’t need it that much. My little car is mostly for in town. We always use the van for trips.

I do love a good minivan. I’m not ashamed :)

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#266

Post by Salgat » Wed, Sep 07, 2022, 4:11 AM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #119

Salgat wrote: post #113

For some context, the first Tesla Roadster also had a transmission, but Tesla quickly realized that it's far better to simply scale up the motor so that the torque curve is high enough at higher RPMs, electronically cap the torque at low RPM, and remove the transmission altogether. Considering transmissions are one of the most expensive and common major parts to repair in a vehicle, it is astounding that anyone would…

You're assuming in your argument that scaling up the motor is somehow free and that's why the cost of a transmission is stupid. Well it's not free, that's why transmissions exist.

I never claimed it was free, I said that Tesla discovered that removing the transmission by scaling up the motor was a far better option.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#267

Post by davewritescode » Wed, Sep 07, 2022, 1:29 PM UTC

jpollock wrote: post #224

davewritescode wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traction control has all sorts of tricks it can use to get you pointed in the right direction. Traction control systems can brake individual wheels to apply rotational torque to counter excessive yaw like when the back tires come loose and the back swings out, the car can induce rotation in the opposite direction to sort things out before they get too dangerous. The other common case is when taking off in a straight…

The argument was that the addition of a transmission would allow more control in snow. Is that only in situations where there isn't traction control, or where it is disabled? Would traction control be expected to outperform a human on snow? Is the higher weight of an EV going to make it handle poorly anyways?

A transmission will do nothing for an EV in the snow. The existing traction management is more than sufficient for starting up but slowing down or changing directions in an EV in traction limited situations will likely always be worse than an equivalent gas car just because of excessive weight.

Traction control will outperform an above average driver on snow. I've driven lots of fast cars sideways and lived in the Northeast my whole life and I leave the TC system on because while I know how to control a slide on a racetrack, I don't want to do the same on a public road.