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Evaluation of TikTok vs. Instagram Reels

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Re: Evaluation of TikTok vs. Instagram Reels

#261

Post by rospaya »

drawfloat wrote: post #75
petesergeant wrote: post #19

If you thought Cambridge Analytica was bad, wait 'til you find out what a China-based company can do with detailed preference and arousal data from young people.

Probably as much as a US based company can. I didn't see any US social media giants getting any real punishment for what they got up to between 2007-17. In fact, given the general distrust of China in the West in international politics, feels like national governments are more likely to respond to any emerging harms than they did with Facebook.

Tik Tok seems to be worse than Facebook in that regard

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/08/tiktok-shares-your-data-more...

Re: Evaluation of TikTok vs. Instagram Reels

#262

Post by motoxpro »

dixie_land wrote: post #257
ren_engineer wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TikTok is just AI/ML engagement algorithms unleashed, they never gave into the backlash that YouTube and Facebook did after the 2016 election and just continued optimizing purely for engagement metrics. US tech companies dumbed down their own content algorithms and are somehow shocked that they are now getting destroyed. Social media is a drug, TikTok is providing the purest form right now

This; and they have a legion of well educated MLEs in China working for much less in a cut throat competitive environment

This is wrong. When supply of world-class talent is low, the price of said talent goes up, not down. https://web.archive.org/web/20200831135137/https://www.bloom...

Re: Evaluation of TikTok vs. Instagram Reels

#263

Post by dixie_land »

motoxpro wrote: post #262
dixie_land wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This; and they have a legion of well educated MLEs in China working for much less in a cut throat competitive environment

This is wrong. When supply of world-class talent is low, the price of said talent goes up, not down. https://web.archive.org/web/20200831135137/https://www.bloom...

I have friends in China. At Douyin (China) there's a general resentment towards Tiktok (overseas, esp US), at the same level the folks at home are paid much less.

Also, the big TC numbers (for most ICs, not sure about high level execs) are mostly inflated illiquid RSUs.

Re: Evaluation of TikTok vs. Instagram Reels

#264

Post by saurik »

ren_engineer wrote: post #234
SilverBirch wrote: post #188

> If Instagram wants to capture TikTok's magical human touch, it needs to measure and optimize for something deeper. I think this is really funny. The conclusion I would draw is slightly different - that Instagram isn't Tiktok and it's never going to be Tiktok. You can make Instagram's algorithm exactly like Tiktok and it still won't be like Tiktok because the users and content creators on Tiktok aren't on Instagram,…

TikTok is just AI/ML engagement algorithms unleashed, they never gave into the backlash that YouTube and Facebook did after the 2016 election and just continued optimizing purely for engagement metrics. US tech companies dumbed down their own content algorithms and are somehow shocked that they are now getting destroyed. Social media is a drug, TikTok is providing the purest form right now

I get the impression that TikTok--due in no small part to its Chinese origin--also has an army of people explicitly moderating the community and re-weighting content, whether for reasons we might consider good or bad. I thereby really don't think it is fair to call it "AI/ML engagement algorithms unleashed", and I don't think it has any chance of falling into the content tarpits of YouTube (as extremist content would be removed or shadowbanned by humans) or Instagram (as low-effort content farms are essentially non-existent due to the moderation)... but, they also had a major scandal a couple years ago when we learned they were actively telling their moderators to filter out people who looked too ugly, poor, or disabled :/.

https://theintercept.com/2020/03/16/tiktok-app-moderators-us...

> The makers of TikTok, the Chinese video-sharing app with hundreds of millions of users around the world, instructed moderators to suppress posts created by users deemed too ugly, poor, or disabled for the platform, according to internal documents obtained by The Intercept. These same documents show moderators were also told to censor political speech in TikTok livestreams, punishing those who harmed “national honor” or broadcast streams about “state organs such as police” with bans from the platform.

Re: Evaluation of TikTok vs. Instagram Reels

#265

Post by btilly »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #100
btilly wrote: post #37

Time to trot out http://www.dtc.umn.edu/~odlyzko/doc/metcalfe.pdf again. (Yes, I am one of the co-authors.) Multiple lines of evidence point to the basic value of a social network scaling like `O(n log(n))`. So getting your first million users is hard. But after you've got there, you don't have to be that much better than the competition to win. The conclusion is that social networks should be a lot less sticky and d…

So, did Zuckerberg read your paper and take it to heart, or did he have some _intuition_ or paranoia that helped guide him?

No clue.

Re: Evaluation of TikTok vs. Instagram Reels

#266

Post by btilly »

wodenokoto wrote: post #52
btilly wrote: post #37

Time to trot out http://www.dtc.umn.edu/~odlyzko/doc/metcalfe.pdf again. (Yes, I am one of the co-authors.) Multiple lines of evidence point to the basic value of a social network scaling like `O(n log(n))`. So getting your first million users is hard. But after you've got there, you don't have to be that much better than the competition to win. The conclusion is that social networks should be a lot less sticky and d…

> MySpace was overtaken by Friendster Did that ever happen? Was it a US thing? I've heard of Friendster, but I thought it was something that MySpace killed and then MySpace went global and then got overtaken by Facebook.

I got it backwards. :-(

Re: Evaluation of TikTok vs. Instagram Reels

#267

Post by fuckHNtho »

ren_engineer wrote: post #234
SilverBirch wrote: post #188

> If Instagram wants to capture TikTok's magical human touch, it needs to measure and optimize for something deeper. I think this is really funny. The conclusion I would draw is slightly different - that Instagram isn't Tiktok and it's never going to be Tiktok. You can make Instagram's algorithm exactly like Tiktok and it still won't be like Tiktok because the users and content creators on Tiktok aren't on Instagram,…

TikTok is just AI/ML engagement algorithms unleashed, they never gave into the backlash that YouTube and Facebook did after the 2016 election and just continued optimizing purely for engagement metrics. US tech companies dumbed down their own content algorithms and are somehow shocked that they are now getting destroyed. Social media is a drug, TikTok is providing the purest form right now

yes...this is the trending HN narrative. but do you have any evidence to support this take? i read certain takes on HN soo often i start to feel i know them for fact, but do we really? Some of them are probably very wrong. Why couldnt tiktok just be doing the same things as meta, but a whole lot better?

Re: Evaluation of TikTok vs. Instagram Reels

#268

Post by krapp »

fuckHNtho wrote: post #267
ren_engineer wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TikTok is just AI/ML engagement algorithms unleashed, they never gave into the backlash that YouTube and Facebook did after the 2016 election and just continued optimizing purely for engagement metrics. US tech companies dumbed down their own content algorithms and are somehow shocked that they are now getting destroyed. Social media is a drug, TikTok is providing the purest form right now

yes...this is the trending HN narrative. but do you have any evidence to support this take? i read certain takes on HN soo often i start to feel i know them for fact, but do we really? Some of them are probably very wrong. Why couldnt tiktok just be doing the same things as meta, but a whole lot better?

The weird thing is, it wasn't long ago when HN was praising TikTok for feeling refreshing and quirky and reminding them of the creativity they missed on the "old web." How this place can sometimes turn on a dime...

Re: Evaluation of TikTok vs. Instagram Reels

#269

Post by ncpa-cpl »

brabel wrote: post #74
wodenokoto wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> MySpace was overtaken by Friendster Did that ever happen? Was it a US thing? I've heard of Friendster, but I thought it was something that MySpace killed and then MySpace went global and then got overtaken by Facebook.

In some countries, Friendster was extremely popular before Facebook! In others, there were other dominant social networks, like Orkut. Facebook was the first to dominate in all countries.

> In others, there were other dominant social networks

I remember Hi5 in Latin America and India, Hyves in the Netherlands, Orkut in Brazil, VK in Russia, StudyVZ in Germany, Tuenti in Spain. Finland and Sweden had a popular photo log websitr but I can't remember its name.

Re: Evaluation of TikTok vs. Instagram Reels

#270

Post by midoBB »

zip1234 wrote: post #225
smelendez wrote: post #39

TikTok has such a content and data advantage. More viewers, more creators, more content. Feels like it’ll be very hard for Meta, YouTube or any competitor to come back without coming up with a hugely superior recommendation algorithm, and TikTok’s feels hard to beat, or some kind of improved creation tools that give it a content library advantage. And TikTok just has the momentum, the cool factor. Instagram did too w…

...also Tiktok doesn't care about privacy

Does anyone? Has Cambridge Analytica not shown us anything?
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