Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

German digital signage ban prompts confusion

avinteractive.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 457 posts

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#261

Post by jhoechtl »

boredumb wrote: post #259
polycaster wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What on earth are people spending electricity on? I guess there are just a lot more appliances in use today and we're more lazy. When I, approaching my 40s, compare our household with my parents household when I was a child there a various notable changes in habits: - My mother hang the loundry to dry. We seldomly do this anymore, instead we're using a dryer. These things are insanely power-hungry. - Electronics fo…

Why are ACs awkward in Germany?

Because they are power-hungry and everyone knows that.

More generally because the climate in central Europe is not like Arizona, Utah, New Mexico, California but hospitable during the summer season without AC.

AC makes it more comfortable during hot days but it is still doable without.

This is only true for private households. Since 10 years ACs are widely used in a business environment.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#262

Post by peoplefromibiza »

yunohn wrote: post #232
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But there is a space for advertising that is gentler, honest and educational. I don't disagree, but there are a few points that I see differently. First of all, I think that what you're looking for is promotion, that is based on someone or some entity promoting your products and services, putting their face on it and leveraging their reputation of connoisseur of the matter at hand. It's based on trust and works bes…

> Nobody buy smartphones based on adv What?? If there ever was proof that HN is completely clueless about reality not empathetic of their fellow humans. Ads are not brainwashing.

> What?? If there ever was proof that HN is completely clueless about reality not empathetic of their fellow humans

The simple answer is that the real disconnect is thinking that since someone comments on HN, he is some kind of a mythical creature.

I am a middle aged man from Italy that saw mobile phones birth when was 20 already.

Don't assume that your experience is my experience.

Nobody I know closely knows what HN is, they ask me what phone to buy or which laptop, because I've always been the "techie" of the family/group of friends and because they care about not wasting their money but can't navigate the bullshit they see in the ads.

I guess that "blast past fast" or "do what you can" don't really say anything about the device true capabilities and why one should spend their money to buy it.

unless the reason is "I will buy whatever rich people buy" or "I like the colour of this one"

Of course the iPhone ads work, because they don't promote the phone, they sell a way of life, a lifestyle, their target is the "cool kids" that want to be "content creators" and that appeals to their desire to be part of what is fashionable among their peers, but that's exactly what brainwashing is.

Ads is brainwashing and it's scientifically weaponized against the reference target.

repetita iuvant: they don't promote the product, they exploit your sentiments, desires, fears, whatever works, to make you buy the product. But are actually a bunch of lies.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#263

Post by tjansen »

mschuster91 wrote: post #253
tjansen wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because nuclear does not make sense. Assuming your three points would be solved, would you be in favour of nuclear power plants? Or what exactly would need to change?

I would of course not be in favor of nuclear power. A new nuclear plant takes well over a decade to build - it makes way more economical sense to build renewable power plants because they can be ready far faster and pose less danger and waste to our children.

> I would of course not be in favor of nuclear power.

Ok, let's say I could convince you that it is possible to store nuclear waste safely, and show you that building up wind power takes at least as long. Could I convince you then?

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#264

Post by mschuster91 »

tjansen wrote: post #249
mschuster91 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We need to generate 100% of our energy needs every single hour. Renewables are practically incapable of doing this on their own. They can reduce the use of fossil fuelds (or nuclear power), but not replace them. Install enough windmills across the entire coastal areas of Europe, add thousands of kilometers long cross-continental UHVDC links like China does [1] and even winter won't be a problem. Besides: using biom…

> Install enough windmills across the entire coastal areas of Europe, That's completely unrealistic. There are times when in all of Europe there is little to no wind. Certainly not enough that one region can provide enough power for all of Europe. Maybe it's possible in China, I don't now their climate, but even they are planning to increase the number of nuclear power plants.

We need a complete transformation of our power usage in any case, both to save energy demand and to make the grid more flexible:

- insulate buildings so that they better retain heat. This one is massive - over a third of all energy consumption goes towards buildings [1]!

- promote heat pumps (either to air or ground) because these are far more energy efficient for air conditioning and hot water generation

- help poorer households to save energy - especially those who can't afford to replace their 20 years old fridge which consumes over double the power that a modern appliance needs [2].

- resilient grids with photo-voltaic energy generation on every roof and distributed battery storage

- smart grids that can (dis)incentivize large loads like water heaters or electric vehicles automatically based on grid generation capacity

- more incentives for high-energy consuming industries to act as a dynamic power sink or to operate only in times where energy is plentiful

- shut down street lights at night or make them smart to only be alight when needed - lighting consumes about 0.7% of the total power consumption [0], but as it runs at night where solar power is offline by definition, its impact on base load is worse.

- completely ban advertisements using lighting at night

Ideally, we would have continuous renewable or at least climate neutral-ish generation power (geothermal, tidal, running water power, biogas and waste incineration and whatever is the sum of the lowest-ever-available-wind power) to cover the base load, and have consumers smartly adapt on current electricity prices.

[0] https://www.strassenbeleuchtung.de/index.php/technik/34-grun...

[1] https://www.dena.de/themen-projekte/energieeffizienz/gebaeud...

[2] https://www.verbraucherzentrale.nrw/sites/default/files/2022...

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#265

Post by [deleted] »

xxs wrote: post #194
legulere wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are using 1000 kWh per year as a couple including hot water. With that we are very low in Germany, but even that is really without much optimization (though we lack some energy-intensive devices like a clothes dryer). Newer devices sold in the EU are relatively energy efficient. A typical fridge-freezer combo uses 150kWh.

>A typical fridge-freezer combo uses 150kWh. That would be a small Fridge efficiency has not increased much in the last decades (LG infamously had an efficient but horrendously unreliable 'linear compressor') - the only part that can increase efficiency is the time(s) it gets opened and how good seals the fridge has, and ambient temperature. Also smaller compressor by design cannot be super efficient. The newer devic…

[deleted]

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#266

Post by odshoifsdhfs »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #257
odshoifsdhfs wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't about the absolute numbers (even though they aren't 'good' for Germany specially if you remove micro/extreme poor states), is the 'holier than thou' attitude from Germans. It's like an obese person going to the morbidly obese: 'here we don't stuff our mouths with food like you' while having no sense that they are just in a slightly better state than the ones they are chastising.

I do not understand your argument. We do not use personal cars as often as USA or some other countries, instead relying more on public transportation and bikes - as a result, electricity costs for transportation are quite low for individual households. What's your point? That less than 25% of population do not eat healthy and this is somehow relevant to the conversation?

Among the EU, germans drive more km per car than anyone else except Austria (data from 2000, can't find newer).

Among the EU, Germans rank 6th on car ownership per capita (2020 data).

Going these together, and it shows within the EU, Germans are the on the top of km per capita and not 'we drive less than others' (except maybe the US)

Your reply to someone asking about charging their EV(thus need to drive) was that in Germany that isn't a problem because there you eat healthy and cycle, which is a lie (you drive more than most/all of the EU). (as per cycling data, DE is 7th on daily usage of bikes in the EU, but couldn't find any data regarding number of kilometres though)

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#267

Post by PurpleRamen »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #36
themoonisachees wrote: post #27

> This means out-of-home advertising displays at bus stops, train stations and in underpasses could still be operated according to invidis managing director Florian Rotberg. “Most contracts explicitly require outdoor advertising companies to operate backlit city light posters and screens well into the night to provide passengers with more security in the waiting area. Autumn will show whether and how the exemptions w…

It isn't the ads, really: They are realistically speaking of lighting in bus stops, underpasses, and train stations. Lighting in those areas, which tend to be dark or populated, helps folks feel safer. Taking away the ads makes these places darker, and I can understand not suddenly having nervous folks not take the bus or train. Though, I agree: They can get bent about the contracts. The proper response is to install…

It's not only for safety for the passengers. The light also helps the driver to see the bus stops and stations. Especially bus driver who often switch routes seem to have demand for this.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#268

Post by tpmx »

peaslock wrote: post #138
martin_a wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the source linked in the top comment, we are looking at a total consumption of 113.000 MWh per year for those displays. One third of that is at least around 30.000 MWh of saved energy.

So 0.005% at 560 TWh total consumption.

The action is super visible though. Sometimes that's the most important thing. /s

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#269

Post by lm28469 »

freilanzer wrote: post #100
lm28469 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to manipulate people into buying shit they don't need? This is encouraged by our system, switching off screens at night won't change it. Attack the root cause not the very last symptom

Why not both? Energy can be saved here that is needlessly wasted.

It barely delays the inevitable, it's less than a drop in the bucket, everything you gain there will be instantly counteracted 10 fold somewhere else because we don't want to face reality.

But sure, let's stop using plastic straws and switch off our routers at night while we continue absolutely ravaging this planet

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#270

Post by bluescrn »

locallost wrote: post #202
polycaster wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure where this number comes from. Statistisches Bundesamt says it's 1,958 kwh. https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Enviro... Interestingly, for 2 person households they state 3,196 kwh and for 3+ person households 4,919 kwh. Energy consumption scales worse than I expected. I assumed there would be more synergy in shared households.

That's pretty crazy. We used to spend 1400 KWh as a family of three. Didn't check the latest numbers as a family of four, but I don't expect a lot more. We even cook / bake a lot. What on earth are people spending electricity on?

Home server PC at around 100W. That adds a surprising amount, on it's own that's getting close to 1000KWh to run for a year.

And then there's the main PC setup, running maybe 12hrs a day (inc. WFH). And that was build for gaming, so it's quite power-hungry, especially when the GPU is kept busy, working on Unity projects.

Post reply on HN