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Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#261

Post by dragonwriter »

adventured wrote: post #189
nineplay wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And I do have faith that sunlight is the best disinfectant, and that truth will prevail over lies. I wish I had that faith but I think the Holocaust stands as a pretty big counter-argument. I'm genuinely curious about your faith, do you think that something could have been done in Germany in the 30s which would have preserved free speech and prevented the Holocaust?

The KKK was thoroughly defeated as a power in the US thanks entirely to the US system of freedom of speech; the KKK had a very large, potent base at one time. They were not outlawed as a group, sunlight-as-disinfectant overwhelmingly won out (and no, the US still having a small number of KKK members with next to zero political power isn't a good counter point). It was the ability to tightly regulate and limit speech…

> The KKK was thoroughly defeated as a power in the US thanks entirely to the US system of freedom of speech; the KKK had a very large, potent base at one time. They were not outlawed as a group, sunlight-as-disinfectant overwhelmingly won out

While the Ku Klux Klan Act of 1871 didn't, you are correct, outlaw the Klan as a group, it did authorize a whole lot of measures—including authorizing federal military force and suspension of the writ of habeas corpus, and new federal civil and criminal causes of action—to combat their actions and those of similar groups, and those authorities were liberally used in suppressing them. Describing the successful strategy as “sunlight as disinfectant” rather than massive application of force is... not grounded in fact.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#262

Post by jjeaff »

zackees wrote: post #181
dragonwriter wrote: post #23

Actually, no, the jury verdict on punitive damages is $45.2 million, but that is certain to be reduced before Jones is ordered to pay (there seems to be some dispute over whether a portion of the compensatory damages award is economic or not, and depending on the answer on that, the cap under Texas statutory punitive damages caps would seem to be somewhere between $750k and $1m; even if the plaintiffs succeed in thei…

Quoted post unavailable.

Sounds like maybe the only research you did was listen to what the convicted liar is saying.

The reality is that Jones was given ample opportunity to comply and blatantly refused to cooperate with lawful court orders. Add to that, some of that information that he claimed under oath didn't exist, was accidentally sent to the plaintiff's attorneys by Jone's attorneys in a subsequent trial thus providing proof that said information was being withheld purposefully.

In other words, this is exactly what justice looks like.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#263

Post by pstuart »

phpisthebest wrote: post #202
speakfreely wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is an important point. Many of us here live in cities, but in rural America there is a stunning amount of people who really believe that Joe Biden lost the 2020 election and that there was a massive, coordinated campaign of voter fraud. In many dominantly red states, this is not considered a fringe conspiracy theory but more or less generally accepted as fact.

The solution to that is not suppression of the idea(s), in fact attempts to suppress anyone talking about the election only serve as fuel to expand the number of people that believe it, as "what are they trying to hide" becomes of the main part of the story. Greater, and Actual Transparency combined with a trust worthily network of news outlets would go along way to shut down these types of discussions Sadly we have…

> Want to tone down the number of people that believe in conspiracy... More Facts, less Spin...

Really? More facts will change their minds? Who will they trust with those facts?

This is bordering on cult-like behavior and it shows no signs of improving -- I'm not optimistic about this at all.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#264

Post by Consultant32452 »

dukeofdoom wrote: post #259
stjohnswarts wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, the judge gets final say but they rarely change these things unless the jury awards something ridiculous like a billion dollars for a broken bone.

Quoted post unavailable.

Jones did not have a jury trial for determining guilt, the judge gave a summary judgement to the plaintiffs because Jones allegedly did not fully comply with discovery. She accurately explained, as a matter of law, that he was guilty. That had been determined at the point of the summary judgement.

What happened recently and in the news was just the jury determining the size of the punishment.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#265

Post by jdhendrickson »

zackees wrote: post #181
dragonwriter wrote: post #23

Actually, no, the jury verdict on punitive damages is $45.2 million, but that is certain to be reduced before Jones is ordered to pay (there seems to be some dispute over whether a portion of the compensatory damages award is economic or not, and depending on the answer on that, the cap under Texas statutory punitive damages caps would seem to be somewhere between $750k and $1m; even if the plaintiffs succeed in thei…

Quoted post unavailable.

Serial con artist doing con artist things, or malfeasance from the judge who has been extraordinarily patient with lies under oath, grandstanding, and dealing with someone with the morality of a carnivorous weevil.

What is frightening is you seem to be a true believer, how can a public figure so easily debunked enthrall you so easily?

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#266

Post by pstuart »

adventured wrote: post #178
speakfreely wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is an important point. Many of us here live in cities, but in rural America there is a stunning amount of people who really believe that Joe Biden lost the 2020 election and that there was a massive, coordinated campaign of voter fraud. In many dominantly red states, this is not considered a fringe conspiracy theory but more or less generally accepted as fact.

Quoted post unavailable.

It was an attempted insurrection -- there's plenty of evidence to support that.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#267

Post by kentm »

unixbane wrote: post #214
brown9-2 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What damages were actually done here? $50m for "emotional distress" is ridiculous in any context. Let me guess: you don’t have kids

Quoted post unavailable.

> and only complete idiots think his misinformation has power.

You do realize that the Jones Sandy Hook thing caused the parents in question to be stalked, harassed, and even shot at because Jones platformed this nonsense? And before you say "Well then why won't those people arrested?" the ones that could be identified were, like Wolfgang Halbig: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/wolgang-halbig-charged-sandy-...

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#268

Post by dragonwriter »

dukeofdoom wrote: post #259
stjohnswarts wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, the judge gets final say but they rarely change these things unless the jury awards something ridiculous like a billion dollars for a broken bone.

Quoted post unavailable.

> The judge implied, and outright told the jury during the trail that Alex was guilty before the jury deliberated

The judge issued a default judgement against Jones for persistent refusal to meet discovery obligations. The jury trial was about damages, not liability (“guilt” is not strictly at issue, since it is a civil and not a criminal case.)

Default judgement is a sanction available for that kind of persistent misconduct in civil cases. (And Jones has two more of them in Sandy Hook cases for the same reason, one in the same Texas court, another in Connecticut. The default judgements in both Texas cases refer to the noncompliance in all three cases in their factual background.)

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#269

Post by dcolkitt »

nineplay wrote: post #150
noduerme wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> He tried to convince the world that the crime didn't actually happen and even worse tried to convince the world that the dead were actors and other nonsense. I'm a Jewish grandson of Holocaust survivors. I'm also American. I'm pretty happy our country has not adopted laws against holocaust denial in the way Germany or Canada have. I appreciate the thought behind those laws. But I appreciate freedom of speech more.…

> And I do have faith that sunlight is the best disinfectant, and that truth will prevail over lies. I wish I had that faith but I think the Holocaust stands as a pretty big counter-argument. I'm genuinely curious about your faith, do you think that something could have been done in Germany in the 30s which would have preserved free speech and prevented the Holocaust?

Weimar Germany already had extensive laws regulating and restricting speech. Those same exact laws were turned against the early opponents of the Nazis.

I don’t know if the First Amendment would have stopped the totalitarian takeover of Germany. But it certainly would have made it harder.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#270

Post by bandyaboot »

philliphaydon wrote: post #211
speakfreely wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is an important point. Many of us here live in cities, but in rural America there is a stunning amount of people who really believe that Joe Biden lost the 2020 election and that there was a massive, coordinated campaign of voter fraud. In many dominantly red states, this is not considered a fringe conspiracy theory but more or less generally accepted as fact.

Quoted post unavailable.

Read the Mueller report. Read the Report on Russian interference in the 2016 elections from the Republican controlled Senate Intelligence Committee. The difference is that one has a tremendous amount of supporting evidence. The other has none.
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