Live data from Hacker News

A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

washingtonpost.com

261–270 of 367 posts

Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely despise most of the vinyl community. Don't get me wrong, I love my records. I have hundreds of them and I play them regularly. For some reason, almost everyone I come by has this delusion that vinyl is objectively better than a good digital recording. Anyone who dissents from that narrative gets gaslit: "oh what kind of turntable do you have? oh that's not good enough, there's your problem right there."…

I love records (78s and vinyl) for the tactile and visual experience-- and the fact that I can get something for a few bucks at the thrift store and not feel too bad about my toddler ruining it trying to put the needle on. To that end I have stuck to cheap, sturdy, school-grade equipment and mostly secondhand records. It's so fascinating to me that an inert physical disc is engraved with sound waves that are reproduc…

in the case of the 78s without the need for anything electrical in between.

For fully mechanically recorded records you have to go back to pre-1927 Edison Diamond Disks. Or the real deal, Edison cylinders.

Edison cylinders are actually rather good recordings. The mechanical playback system. with no amplifier, introduced most of the distortion. Modern playbacks, using a modern record pickup with a suitably large-sized stylus, are quite good. Here are some from cylinders made around 1900.[1] Those include Sousa's band playing Sousa's marches, led by Sousa himself.

The ultimate playback device is IRENE. This was built for the Library of Congress. It does a full 3D scan of the entire disk or cylinder surface, and a detailed 3D model of the surface is created. That's turned into audio by a program that simulates a stylus tracking through the grooves. IRENE is used on very old, fragile items. It's even possible to put broken shards back together in 3D and recover the audio.

For real authenticity, there are reproducing pianos. These are player pianos, but with a better recording system, one capable of recording key pressure while a live pianist played the piano. While the Duo-Art system had binary-coded pressure values, the Welte-Mignon system was analog. Mostly. Here's a Welte-Mignon roll being played.[2] The holes at the outer edges of the roll are encoding the key pressure. The ones in the middle indicate which keys. MIDI, from over a century ago.

If you're going to go retro, go all the way. If you just want to listen to music, it doesn't get any better than 24 bit audio. (16 bits may not be enough for really soft passages, where all the high bits are zero and you may be down to 6 bit audio.)

[1] https://www.nps.gov/edis/learn/photosmultimedia/recordings.h...

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8K5Yh0aLhA

Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#262

Audiophile is full of nonsense but one of the more hilarious ones in something like this where the goal is "no digital" is it's been a long time since you could guarantee there was no digital going on between the instrument and the master. They talk about Thriller a lot. Is it possible to have a completely analog copy of Thriller if it turned out a guitar went through a digital rack unit or a digital synthesizer was…

There are digital pedals? Honest question - I had a side gig at school repairing and modifying pedals - it was all just transistors and op-amps, bistable oscillators, etc. - nothing digital at all.

Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#263

"In the world of audiophiles — where provenance is everything and the quest is to get as close to the sound of an album’s original recording as possible — digital is considered almost unholy." Out of context of the rest of the article, this is total nonsense. While some in the audiophile scene like going analog, none of them debate against the truth that objectively , vinyl is far lower quality. Vinyl doesn't have ne…

if your DAC is a DAC, truly (that is not a high bar) then the audio that comes out of it is a perfect reproduction of the audio that went into the ADC that produced the digital audio, provided it is a true ADC (also not a high bar at all). Nyquist theory proves it. The Ogg people have a fantastic video explaining this. Technology Connections on YouTube has a video about it as well (the Ogg video explains things bette…

I don't agree with the characterisation in your first sentence (nothing is ever perfect in analogue), but the video was very interesting, thanks for sharing!

Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#264

"In the world of audiophiles — where provenance is everything and the quest is to get as close to the sound of an album’s original recording as possible — digital is considered almost unholy." Out of context of the rest of the article, this is total nonsense. While some in the audiophile scene like going analog, none of them debate against the truth that objectively , vinyl is far lower quality. Vinyl doesn't have ne…

if your DAC is a DAC, truly (that is not a high bar) then the audio that comes out of it is a perfect reproduction of the audio that went into the ADC that produced the digital audio, provided it is a true ADC (also not a high bar at all). Nyquist theory proves it. The Ogg people have a fantastic video explaining this. Technology Connections on YouTube has a video about it as well (the Ogg video explains things bette…

The Shannon-Nyquist sampling theorem only defines the sample rate to perfectly reproduce a signal of a certain bandwidth.

It says nothing about noise, distortion, dynamic range. In these areas it is impossible to create a "perfect" DAC, although granted the best DACs are indistinguishable from perfect as far as human perception is concerned.

Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#265

Audiophile is full of nonsense but one of the more hilarious ones in something like this where the goal is "no digital" is it's been a long time since you could guarantee there was no digital going on between the instrument and the master. They talk about Thriller a lot. Is it possible to have a completely analog copy of Thriller if it turned out a guitar went through a digital rack unit or a digital synthesizer was…

There are digital pedals? Honest question - I had a side gig at school repairing and modifying pedals - it was all just transistors and op-amps, bistable oscillators, etc. - nothing digital at all.

Oh yeah totally. There are pedals these days that are a ADC->DSP->DAC. What's actually on the DSP can be programmable, so you have pedals who's function can be changed with the twist of a knob. They kept the same interface (aka quarter inch cables, and foot-stompable buttons), just modernized the interior. They range from something like the Zoom MS-70 CDR at $150, to $1,200 for one with multiple buttons, an analog pedal, and is laptop controllable via USB. (Line 6 Helix LT or Boss GT-1000.)

Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#266
So I was debugging / documenting last night and put the "smoking gun" video on the background. I don't know why. I guess I felt if the WaPo was raving it must be good.

It was four middle aged men crammed into a cupboard, talking. And while I was not paying attention to every word, I missed the gun and the smoke.

Where is the bit where a MoFi employee says "we use digital"?

All I heard was waffle and self congratulatory

Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#267

"In the world of audiophiles — where provenance is everything and the quest is to get as close to the sound of an album’s original recording as possible — digital is considered almost unholy." Out of context of the rest of the article, this is total nonsense. While some in the audiophile scene like going analog, none of them debate against the truth that objectively , vinyl is far lower quality. Vinyl doesn't have ne…

> While some in the audiophile scene like going analog, none of them debate against the truth that objectively, vinyl is far lower quality.

You conveniently forget history. Audiophiles embracing digital media is a relatively recent thing. It was vinyl and everything analog until about 10-15 years ago when it became

Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#268

So I was debugging / documenting last night and put the "smoking gun" video on the background. I don't know why. I guess I felt if the WaPo was raving it must be good. It was four middle aged men crammed into a cupboard, talking. And while I was not paying attention to every word, I missed the gun and the smoke. Where is the bit where a MoFi employee says "we use digital"? All I heard was waffle and self congratulato…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shg0780YgAE

2:12, “we do have 4x DSD” i.e. digital stream

3:50, about making copies of tapes, “we bring a computer with 4x DSD analog to digital converters”

Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An instrument amplified by vacuum tubes does have a distinct sound Only if it’s pushed into distortion. Guitar players (generally) like tube Amos because of the way they distort compared to transistor amps. If you are not pushing the amps into distortion, they will only sound different if they’re badly designed.

Not necessarily (well I guess it depends what you mean by "pushed"), but I think tube amps naturally boost the even-numbered harmonics at all volume levels. This sounds good but is distortion.

That’d show up in the Total Harmonic Distortion figure for the amp, and for any halfway hifi quality oriented amp it’ll be well below 0.1%. Perhaps “golden ears” can hear that? I’m not convinced. Most hifi audio amps typically run at well down into the single digit percentage of their rated output at ordinary listening levels in most systems, so they’re an order of magnitude or two away from clipping. If the feedback circuit and the output devices (transistors or tubes) can’t keep the response perfectly linear the thd down under 0.1% across the entire audio frequency band in that power range, it’s just badly designed.
Post reply on HN