Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

asia.nikkei.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 473 posts

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#261

Post by throwaway894345 »

leereeves wrote: post #253
s3r3nity wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In fact to hear him tell it those capabilities are simply not available elsewhere. This is a huge overlooked factor in all of the debate regarding the supply chain. You can't "just move" manufacturing capabilities from one place to another, and debate the labor costs. Rather, probably more importantly, there's actually a _skills supply_ problem.

People will learn the skills if the demand exists. That's what China did and Americans can do it too if multinational companies support US manufacturing.

America doesn't allow the labor or environmental manufacturing conditions that allow China to compete so effectively. We need border adjustments such that goods coming from countries with lesser labor or environmental protections cost more and those coming from countries with better labor/environmental protections cost less (it also has to be transitive so China can't just launder their products through the Czech Republic--i.e., the Czech Republic would have to have a similar border adjustment policy in order to qualify).

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#262

Post by peoplefromibiza »

hosh wrote: post #120
BudaDude wrote: post #33

This should honestly be picked up by a larger news organization. If the US is serious about protecting Taiwan and bringing more chips to the US, Apple should be shamed for choosing Chinese profits. Imagine if Apple told Ukraine employees to label Russia on their badges.

Foxconn is a Taiwanese company, operating in China. The Taiwanese businesses knew they were shooting themselves in the foot but opened up factories in China anyways. The comparison the Ukraine is getting old, mainly because I think a lot of history has been forgotten. Taiwan's formal name is the Republic of China, a government that was in control of Beijing in WWII, and allies with the US. During the Civil War, there…

> is not a buffer state between two major political powers

Ukraine is not a buffer state between two powers though.

Only Americans see it like that, after they regained independence from USSR.

Ukrainians are an east Slavic ethnic group native of Ukraine, separated from Russians, who descend from Finno-Ugric tribes.

Unlike 97% of Taiwanese people, who are Han Chinese like in mainland China.

Taiwan is more like Catalonia, where Catalans insist that they are different from Spaniards, but the conclusion is that Catalans including other Spaniards and even Portuguese are the same ethnic people

EDIT: immediate downvotes are probably from Russian zealots pretending that the World is indeed 100% Russian and should stay like that.

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#263

Post by iforgotpassword »

f38zf5vdt wrote: post #137
the_duke wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternative view: Apple has spent many years happily profiting from cheap Chinese manufacturing, labor, electrial engineering expertise and supply chains to the point where they are now completely beholden to a foreign country. A country whose increasing rivalry with the US in economic power and geopolitical influence (along with increased tensions) has been clear for well over a decade. Apple is diversifying a bit i…

China's long bet is that greed will outstrip any desire for North Americans to intervene with their autocracy. So far they've been absolutely correct.

Well there were enough examples from the past that made that a pretty safe bet.

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#264

Post by droptablemain »

BudaDude wrote: post #33

This should honestly be picked up by a larger news organization. If the US is serious about protecting Taiwan and bringing more chips to the US, Apple should be shamed for choosing Chinese profits. Imagine if Apple told Ukraine employees to label Russia on their badges.

Yeah, great idea, let's wage a proxy war with China whilst in the middle of waging a proxy war on Russia. What could go wrong?!

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#265

Post by protomyth »

You cannot offend China if your company is a China-based manufacturing company. Tim Cook didn't make sure Apple was am America-base manufacturing company and spent a lot of Apple's money on China. Thinking that Tim Cook will not march to Xi Jinping's drum is absurd. His criticisms of American manufacturing can all be solved by Apple investing the same money.

This should be a bigger story. He should be seen as someone who spent American money to build China's supply chain.

[edit: gotta love the Tim Cook apologists]

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#266

Post by stale2002 »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #136
josephcsible wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they are making this choice because they don't way to pay the consequences of it. And that "cannot" is a short way to state that. I don't think that's a short way of saying the same thing though, for the kind of consequences you mean at least. Imagine if I were a vegan for ethical reasons. It'd be fine for me to say "I don't eat meat", but a lie to say "I can't eat meat", since I'd be perfectly capable of doing so,…

Being neuro-atypical, I understand the desire to be "technically correct, the best kind of correct". It would be so much better if we used each word for their exact meaning. But that's not how most human communication work. When people say "I cannot come tomorrow", they usually don't mean they can't. If you gave them one billion dollars to come, chances are they would. This is a fairly common convention, and most peo…

So then since relations have been normalized, no there would not be significant consequences to them engaging in trade, so it would be mean that yes they can trade.

Using the definition that you gave, yes they would be able to trade, because many of those bad consequences of trading have gone away.

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#267

Post by wins32767 »

prepend wrote: post #165
BudaDude wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, China was ready to start WWIII a few days ago.

I don’t think it would be ww3 as China would get roflstomped by US and Japan. They might take Taiwan though and ruin the global economy for a few decades. But I’m not seeing how this gets to be ww3 and not a regional war of just blowing shit up with missles. I don’t think Europe, Africa or South America would get involved unless China fired icbms or bobbed Hawaii or something. China’s military just isn’t strong enoug…

China has done an awesome job in building a military that can win a war for Taiwan. They have a very strong integrated air defense system, enough short range missiles to effectively deny the South China Sea to surface vessels and enough long range missiles to crater all of the nearby airfields the US would use in any such conflict. It's not clear they could successfully invade, but can they sink any ship bringing food into Taiwan? Probably, and realistically that's all they need to do to win.

On the flip side, what can the US do to get China to stop fighting if they don't want to give up? An invasion couldn't possibly take over the whole country and might trigger a nuclear reprisal, a blockade would take longer to work against China than Taiwan, and the economic consequences would hit the US quite hard. How many Americans want to buy war bonds and go on rationing to protect Taiwan? Especially with the current political polarization?

I don't think it's a sure fire win for China, but it's already in the realm of plausibility.

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#268

Post by bnchrch »

NhanH wrote: post #143

Officially, Taiwan agree to the “One China” stance. They even agree in the 1992 consensus that RoC and PRC does not agree who is the legitimate government of both mainland China and Taiwan islands, but the One China stance itself is not something in dispute. The constitution of Taiwan claims sovereignty over mainland China, although they added an amendment to differentiate “free area” citizens (Taiwanese) and citizen…

As someone who has spent a significant amount of time living in Taiwan.

These facts grossly do not represent the reality of today. In minimizing Taiwan sovereignty you hurt a whole nation of people only to benefit a terrible regime saving face.

Taiwan is its own country.

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#269

Post by arvindamirtaa »

quantumwannabe wrote: post #219
hodgesrm wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple has spent many years happily profiting from cheap Chinese manufacturing, labor, electrial engineering expertise and supply chains to the point where they are now completely beholden to a foreign country. Up to a point there's a cost advantage, but Tim Cook has also pointed that Apple uses Chinese factories because it allows them to take advantage of the local manufacturing capabilities, which are substantial.…

Tim Cook also invested a third of a trillion dollars in China because they did not have the manufacturing capabilities to build the iPhone how Apple wanted at the time of the investment. [1] [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-tim-cook-275-billion-c...

A somewhat warped understanding on "manufacturing capabilities".

While Apple may have had to spend money setting up the specific assembly line, fabrication plants, train staff, etc because they simply didn't exist prior to their requirement, the fact that they were able to set it up someplace, and continuously feed raw materials, parts, labour etc with dozens of redundant suppliers for EACH component, is what indicates manufacturing capability.

Manufacturing is more ecosystem than "capability".

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#270

Post by miles »

skoskie wrote: post #88
ericmay wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, an alternative interpretation would be that Apple (like much of the world) is in a no-win situation because an assumption that they had (like much of the world) was that investment, fair trade, and bringing China into the established international organizations would result in liberalization (within reason) of China and that they'd be a full partner in global stability. The grand bargain. But instead the CCP re…

> And basically everyone here is choosing cheaper Chinese goods so we're all complicit too. The only way to not be complicit is to not have a phone. China makes them all.

> The only way to not be complicit is to not have a phone. China makes them all.

Not exactly:

Librem 5 USA: "The Freedom and Privacy of the Librem 5, plus Made in the USA Electronics with a Secure Supply Chain." https://puri.sm/products/librem-5-usa/

"If you want a smartphone built outside China and the walled gardens of Google and Apple, Purism's Librem 5 USA may be for you." https://www.theregister.com/2021/06/07/in_brief_security/

Post reply on HN