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Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

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Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#261

Post by achenet »

galangalalgol wrote: post #116
MonkeyClub wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> compared to people who change colors on a webpage every once in a while. I’m sure it’s more complicated than that, but that being said... Finally someone said it! Ok, I understand that we’re in some anal-retentive age as humans, where we’re discovering our new digital medium and whatnot, but enough with the fixation on small shiny digital bullshit - it’s robbing us of real depth and wonder. And if it’s reached to t…

Not sure that bubble is long for this world. Scarcity called, it said "remember me? Ive been on vacation to everywhere but the west, now I'm back!". What makes shrooms better than coke? Never tried either one, probably not stable enough to risk it, so curious what your valuation criteria are.

not the person you're responding to, but I suspect it would be due to life outcomes of both - mushrooms have been shown to help people resolve past trauma and change their habits for the better, whereas cocaine tends to be habit forming and cokeheads are generally pretty unhappy people.

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#262

Post by Aeolun »

IshKebab wrote: post #243
imgabe wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true. I went to school for EE, but was interested in Computer Science. There was a stigma to switching from EE to CS as taking an easier course because you couldn't hack it in EE. It was seen as a failure or a defeat. I toughed it out and graduated with an electrical engineering degree, but now I'm a programmer anyway. Wish I had just switched once I realized I liked CS more and saved a bunch of time.

I did a mechanical engineering degree and ended up programming (way better pay) which I already could do before uni. I don't regret it though - it's much much easier to learn programming on your own than other kinds of engineering. E.g. if you got a job doing low level programming, like firmware development or even chip design (basically still programming) your EE knowledge would be very helpful.

This is my big takeaway. I didn’t really learn programming in my SE courses anyway, so I might as well have done something more useful.

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#263

Post by t-3 »

colinmhayes wrote: post #59
tekla wrote: post #18

I moved into IT from "formal" engineering and its always frustrated me that a job that involves working on extremely expensive engines using upper level college math gets paid almost nothing compared to people who change colors on a webpage every once in a while. I've been on floors where multi-million dollar pieces of equipment are used to produce parts with obscene levels of precision being used by expert machinist…

The most you can get paid is the amount your company thinks it would cost to replace you. The difficulty of your job has absolutely nothing to do with how much you’re paid, other than maybe reducing labor supply a bit. But there are tons of smart people, if the opportunities exist people will come. Every business needs a bespoke website, so all the web developers have plenty of work. Their options mean that if a comp…

The machinist actually probably can move around relatively easily (and a good machinist isn't much cheaper than an engineer, if at all). The engineers are going to be both more specialized and less in-demand. They work at a higher level where less people are needed, and due to specialization, can often be contracted out.

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#264

Post by AshamedCaptain »

fxtentacle wrote: post #246
killjoywashere wrote: post #119

EE spent so many years making sure everyone knew it's impossibly hard, the professors eat their young, etc. I've seen this in other professions where the incumbents desperately want to impose, in actuality, the uphill-both-ways life story they believe they endured. And then they are shocked when the young peace out. The military, and their insanely rigorous special warfare training. The medical profession in general.…

In my opinion, the issue is that all of the EE work went to China. It's very difficult to find a company in the west where you could go to do an engineering apprenticeship and learn how to build cool stuff, because all of them outsourced their "building cool stuff" operations years ago. And designing things when you cannot try out your design (or when you need to wait 2 weeks for a parcel from China for each attempt)…

This matches my experience, too. Even if maybe not mainland China for the coolest stuff, definitely it is moving to Taiwan, India, etc.

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#265

Post by imtringued »

raverbashing wrote: post #182
killjoywashere wrote: post #119

EE spent so many years making sure everyone knew it's impossibly hard, the professors eat their young, etc. I've seen this in other professions where the incumbents desperately want to impose, in actuality, the uphill-both-ways life story they believe they endured. And then they are shocked when the young peace out. The military, and their insanely rigorous special warfare training. The medical profession in general.…

And right you are! Now the latest trend are MS/PhD only openings. Especially at IC manufacturers But I have two questions for those: why not on-the-job training, and did the people that joined 20/40yrs ago have those qualifications? All of them? Well, good luck filling those positions then! /s

Nowadays we expect people to pay for their own education. No company wants to be the sucker that invested in fleeting human capital.

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#266

Post by imtringued »

boppo1 wrote: post #88
tekla wrote: post #18

I moved into IT from "formal" engineering and its always frustrated me that a job that involves working on extremely expensive engines using upper level college math gets paid almost nothing compared to people who change colors on a webpage every once in a while. I've been on floors where multi-million dollar pieces of equipment are used to produce parts with obscene levels of precision being used by expert machinist…

>It makes no sense. Why is web software so easy to make money in? Why do we value hard engineering so little? Interest rate intervention (making them lower than equilibrium) changed the DCF valuation that is the fundamental way of evaluating business (i.e. people working together on large endeavors) to one where promising massive returns in the future(20+ years) made low returns in the near term (x now had to adjust…

>Interest rate intervention (making them lower than equilibrium) changed the DCF valuation that is the fundamental way of evaluating business

According to the Friedman rule the optimal interest rate is 0%.

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#267

Post by lelanthran »

ChrisRR wrote: post #252
nebula8804 wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget low level embedded programmers, Kernel developers, and many who live in the world of coding in C/ASM. I recall numerous instances in my undergraduate career where professors and the students passionate in these fields would actively persuade people who didn't get exposes to the stuff from even trying. I remember one professor teaching an elective class on the Linux kernel and how he would try his best to…

We are currently having a hell of a time trying to hire embedded developers We're looking for bare metal developers so basic SPI, I2C, UART knowledge is essential, but even in that realm it's surprising how many embedded devs can't work outside of an RTOS and lack basic hardware knowledge

> We are currently having a hell of a time trying to hire embedded developers

I had a hell of a time getting a wage close to watch SWEs make. Hence I am no longer an embedded developer.

It's a no-brainer decision.

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#268

Post by t-3 »

antoniuschan99 wrote: post #178
jpnx wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess this has something to do with a lot of manufacturing having moved to Asia. Here in Germany it is flipped arround. As a software developer in Berlin I can only dream about the salaries I could get as mechanical / electrical engineer in South Germany at one of the big car manufacturers.

Guess it’s all about supply and demand since Germany is the Mecca for Process Controls and Automation. There’s like no ecosystem for Hardware in North America. Definitely primarily software

> There’s like no ecosystem for Hardware in North America. Definitely primarily software

Not "in North America". On the coasts, in attractive big cities, sure. The midwest is still full of manufacturing though, and they still hire engineers (but they're going to make $100,000+, not $300,000+ like software devs in CA).

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#269

Post by onion2k »

tekla wrote: post #18

I moved into IT from "formal" engineering and its always frustrated me that a job that involves working on extremely expensive engines using upper level college math gets paid almost nothing compared to people who change colors on a webpage every once in a while. I've been on floors where multi-million dollar pieces of equipment are used to produce parts with obscene levels of precision being used by expert machinist…

Why is web software so easy to make money in? Why do we value hard engineering so little?

What you earn is a function of the complexity of what you do and the value you generate. Web engineers earn a lot because of the second part of the equation.

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#270

Post by imtringued »

lamontcg wrote: post #194
boppo1 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It makes no sense. Why is web software so easy to make money in? Why do we value hard engineering so little? Interest rate intervention (making them lower than equilibrium) changed the DCF valuation that is the fundamental way of evaluating business (i.e. people working together on large endeavors) to one where promising massive returns in the future(20+ years) made low returns in the near term (x now had to adjust…

Same thing could be said in 2007. All of the goldbug quantity-theory-of-money folks were screaming about Greenspan holding rates artifically low for so long -- both before the tech bubble in 2001 and up until they started to delicately raise rates after 2003. Once the real crash starts to unfold it may get bad for awhile, but once the Billionaires start getting worried about it they'll hit the monetary gas pedal agai…

>significant pain because everything has been built up around the interest rate environment that we've had post-2009

Permanent money is always in disequilibrium. It doesn't build up anything. It is always broken which forces constant interventions to reach equilibrium.

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