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Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

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Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#261

Post by sorenjan »

raverbashing wrote: post #69

My uninformed bet is that a) Russia likes money more and b) if they wanted to cut the delivery of gas they would have done it already They like playing the panic angle of course, and closing the tap once in a while, but I think it's mostly hot air

Russia is making more money on their oil and gas exports now than last year [0], due to higher prices. Imagine what could happen when winter comes and Russia shuts off the gas deliveries until EU pulls back sanctions. Would all countries stand united even though some are very dependent on that gas to heat their homes? Will people still care enough about a war that's almost a year old by then?

[0] https://www.statista.com/chart/27615/daily-russian-fossil-fu...

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#262

Post by bilbo0s »

etempleton wrote: post #99

The EU and the US need to have been building new nuclear power plants yesterday. Not everywhere in the world is ideal for nuclear due to the potential for significant natural disaster, but much of Western Europe and the United States are perfectly safe with the latest nuclear reactor designs.This was known before the current energy crisis and there has been complete inaction for decades. Coupled with solar, wind and…

Everyone wants to build nuclear.

People get quiet when they realize that the energy investors won't pay for it so you end up with Uncle Sam footing the bill. Any analyst just looks at the financial disaster that is Vogtie and it becomes impossible to justify investment. Unless the government bankrolls you.

In the US, we need to get comfortable with the government owning large swathes of energy production capacity. Until we are, and are willing to pay the taxes and authorize the disbursements to make these things happen, nuclear will not happen in the big way we need it to.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#263

Post by ceejayoz »

nathias wrote: post #238
frostburg wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia is failing, with its military reputation, one of its few assets, in tatters.

its weird how people who have nothing always have to take care of the bill

The answer to that moral issue is not to do the immoral thing in the linked scenario. The answer to that is to do the moral thing in both aspects.

The EU should provide payment assistance to low-income folks for their energy bills, or directly subsidize it.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#264

Post by hbossy »

pydry wrote: post #173
veeti wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many of those pensioners naively participated in Germany's anti-nuclear movement in the 70's, 80's, 90's? You reap what you sow. No sympathy for Russian puppets.

It's kind of amazing that Germany can make the biggest effort of any western country to switch over to renewables and when they start suffering because America and Russia decided they want a proxy fight, Americans opine that Germany should be suffering because they decided to switch off a source of 4% of their power and didnt build enough port capacity for overpriced American LNG. If this truly is the official Americ…

Renewables were never an alternative to gas. They can supplement it but not completely replace it. They are simply not stable enough. Maybe except for hydroelectricity. Meanwhile they did everything they could to prevent any development of new nuclear projects.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#265

Post by XorNot »

zirror wrote: post #185
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is to say Russia will stop at Ukraine? They clearly weren't satisfied with Crimea. Is Poland safe? Is Germany? I don't mean to be alarmist but we've seen similar scenarios play out in Europe before. This isn't merely about what's morally correct, it's also about self-interest.

Russia can't win a war against NATO, so they will not attack Poland or Germany. Maybe Moldova or something. This fear mongering is ridiciouslus. They can't even win against Ukraine, for crying out loud. Poland, France, UK, Germany(, Turkey?) would together crush them in a couple of months. Add Finland and Sweden and it gets reduced to weeks. Add the US and it'll take a couple of days. (Hyperbole, but still). They are…

No, but as soon as you start asking questions like "is X country really worth it compared to nuclear war?" then the deterrent has failed.

A loss in Ukraine means every non-NATO state in the region either gets nuclear armed up, or gets annexed.

The expectation that the result of "letting it happen" would also be cheap gas is laughable: if someone's willing to trade away their morals and a country for something you sell them, then you already know it's underpriced.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#266

Post by bilbo0s »

jonathan-adly wrote: post #95
akmarinov wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solution #1 - we already tried that, we gave Putin Crimea in 2014, everything was chill for 7-8 years and now we have this mess. If we give him Donetsk and Luhansk, he'll just be back for more + Moldova in 5-6 years.

Yea, Crimea would have been the perfect time to realize that depending on a rational, happy Russia for gas is a bad idea. Don't worry though, America is repeating the same mistakes with China. So, its not just Europe.

We don't depend on China for energy.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#267

Post by frostburg »

nathias wrote: post #238
frostburg wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia is failing, with its military reputation, one of its few assets, in tatters.

its weird how people who have nothing always have to take care of the bill

Those goalposts are moving quickly. "It's impossible" -> "It's too costly" -> "The wrong people are supposedly footing the cost (without considering the gigantic externalities)" -> "I just want Russia to win"

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#268

Post by atlasunshrugged »

wewxjfq wrote: post #243
atlasunshrugged wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's fair to blame France, they have long been pushing for nuclear as evidenced by their energy sources being hugely reliant on domestic nuclear rather than foreign energy. It's really been the German greens hellbent on holding back nuclear across the EU.

> on domestic nuclear rather than foreign energy What a statement. > It's really been the German greens hellbent on holding back nuclear across the EU The German Greens, stalling investments into nuclear energy across the world. A powerful cabal.

Not sure what's odd about my either statement, below are some links as evidence as it seems like you think there's something controversial about what I said.

IEA on France's energy mix: https://www.iea.org/countries/france A few articles on Germany being against nuclear: https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-to-veto-eu-plan-to-l... https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/01/08/why-germans-rema...

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#269

Post by s1artibartfast »

bonzini wrote: post #199
wsc981 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

And Russia had poisoned a West-friendly candidate even before and generally meddled with Ukrainian elections. Let's not make this look like it was started by Ukraine...

Democracy in Ukraine is fucked, with many politicians being backed by outside powers and very little representations.

There have been tons of parliamentary MPs expelled in the last 6 months and complete bans on opposition parties.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/20/ukraine-suspen...

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#270

Post by danans »

skrause wrote: post #204
danans wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Still me and all of my friends are still fine with this. There is no alternative anyway There is an alternative: heat pumps. The problem is the upfront cost, which needs to be lowered through economies of scale.

Heat pumps are not an alternative in the next few years because there are not enough available on the market. I know someone who wanted to buy one for his house in Germany and the waiting list is more than 1-2 years right now.

In the US, you can get one shipped to you in 1-2 days right now:

https://iwae.com/shop/4-to-5-ton-18-seer-variable-speed-mrco...

Germany is a manufacturing powerhouse. Why can't they build them?

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