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Firefox rolls out Total Cookie Protection by default to all users

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Re: Firefox rolls out Total Cookie Protection by default to all users

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you manage session information without using cookies?

http://yourdomain.com/path/to/something?SESSION=af2828c119ae1 and yes, all URLs in every page were rewritten during page generation to include the session ID.

Didn't that break bookmarks?

Re: Firefox rolls out Total Cookie Protection by default to all users

#262

Does this obviate the need for [Facebook Container]( https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/facebook-cont... )?

Facebook Container is a stricter form of protection for Facebook specifically, so no, you should continue using it if you're interested in isolating Facebook. Total Cookie Protection is about isolating third party cookies/web storage, without breaking as much of the web as simply blocking third party cookies does.

In which way is Facebook Container "stricter"? Are you aware of any potential third-party tracking vectors that Firefox does not currently mitigate, but Facebook Container does? The only possible difference I can see is that Facebook Container keeps sites "shared" via Facebook inside of the Facebook Container, so if you navigate from e.g. Facebook -> CNN, facebook can only see the history of CNN pages you've visited inside of the Facebook container. Otherwise, clicking on a share link from Facebook (with, e.g., a unique query parameter) would allow Facebook to correlate their CNN.com facebook cookie with their Facebook.com cookie, getting (retroactive) access to all of your CNN history. So maybe that's one reason to continue to use Facebook Container

Re: Firefox rolls out Total Cookie Protection by default to all users

#263

Does this obviate the need for [Facebook Container]( https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/facebook-cont... )?

You asked what I was wondering except I was thinking of the [Multi-Account Containers](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/multi-account...)

I think Cookie Protection does solve the problem that I used the containers for. I wasn't really using it to keep accounts separate, per se, but more to keep companies like Google from snooping and sneaking peeks at my other cookies.

Re: Firefox rolls out Total Cookie Protection by default to all users

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook Container is a stricter form of protection for Facebook specifically, so no, you should continue using it if you're interested in isolating Facebook. Total Cookie Protection is about isolating third party cookies/web storage, without breaking as much of the web as simply blocking third party cookies does.

In which way is Facebook Container "stricter"? Are you aware of any potential third-party tracking vectors that Firefox does not currently mitigate, but Facebook Container does? The only possible difference I can see is that Facebook Container keeps sites "shared" via Facebook inside of the Facebook Container, so if you navigate from e.g. Facebook -> CNN, facebook can only see the history of CNN pages you've visited…

Yeah, its not really stricter but its different / complementary. Together Facebook Container and Total Cookie will stop more cookies.

Re: Firefox rolls out Total Cookie Protection by default to all users

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook Container is a stricter form of protection for Facebook specifically, so no, you should continue using it if you're interested in isolating Facebook. Total Cookie Protection is about isolating third party cookies/web storage, without breaking as much of the web as simply blocking third party cookies does.

In which way is Facebook Container "stricter"? Are you aware of any potential third-party tracking vectors that Firefox does not currently mitigate, but Facebook Container does? The only possible difference I can see is that Facebook Container keeps sites "shared" via Facebook inside of the Facebook Container, so if you navigate from e.g. Facebook -> CNN, facebook can only see the history of CNN pages you've visited…

I'm not sure if it offers any stricter cookie-specific behavior, but it also blocks network requests Facebook makes on third party pages. So unless you're running in ETP strict/custom mode with the content blocker on, or in private browsing, or maybe an ad blocker that also blocks FB in general, that's probably worth noting.

Re: Firefox rolls out Total Cookie Protection by default to all users

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook Container is a stricter form of protection for Facebook specifically, so no, you should continue using it if you're interested in isolating Facebook. Total Cookie Protection is about isolating third party cookies/web storage, without breaking as much of the web as simply blocking third party cookies does.

What kind of protection does Facebook Container have other than deleting cookies outside of the container? For my case Total Cookie Protection is enough, but if you want the same protection of Facebook Container for every website (i.e. session cookies which are deleted each time you restart the browser) you can install Cookie AutoDelete or use the built-in option to delete cookies at restart (whitelisting websites wh…

It also blocks network requests made by third-party sites to FB. So unless you're already running ETP with the content blocker on (strict mode, private browsing mode) or another ad blocker kind of addon that also blocks FB strictly, then that's an additional measure.

Re: Firefox rolls out Total Cookie Protection by default to all users

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say the size is meaningless. But sometimes it may actually be meaningful. And presence/absence is information also. Not much, but it definitely exists.

In what way? If I'm storing 255 bytes of username/email/credentials/settings/etc, but pad in some fun way to 512 bytes prior to encryption, what in the world does knowing that the cookie is 512 bytes do you? You have no idea what data is stored. You don't know if there are 512 bytes of actual data, 128 bytes with lots of fluff, or anything at all other than 512 bytes. Hell, it could be 0 bytes of data and 512 bytes o…

If the contents of the cookie is a JSON array of recently viewed items, then the size is correlated to whether I've been actively viewing items recently.

Adding random padding makes it harder to get a signal, but with a high enough sample size, it's still possible to get some information. If you always pad to a fixed size, then there's probably no useful information.

At the moment, I think I have enough to do, but I'll probably be looking for something new in the next few weeks. Got any novel single player video game recommendations?

Re: Firefox rolls out Total Cookie Protection by default to all users

#268
post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Total Cookie Protection is going to put cookies that only Facebook can see in a different jar for each separate site you visit, making it so that Facebook can’t read it’s own cookies across different sites. Won't this break some basic features like being logged in to Facebook (or similar services, e.g. Disqus) for the purpose of embedded comment sections on other sites? They don't use cookies only for tracking butt…

Yes, it might break embedded features like comments unless you whitelist the allowed uses. I would assume Firefox handles this thoughtfully, but I haven’t tried the new cookie jars yet, so I don’t know what the UI looks like or allows.

Elsewhere they mentioned that there are exceptions for "popular" SSO systems, but I have a hard time imagining any exception that would allow a shared login for Facebook comments while blocking Facebook tracking across sites. These are essentially the same mechanism.

Re: Firefox rolls out Total Cookie Protection by default to all users

#269

I wonder if there's anyone from any advertising/ad-targeting companies on HN who can shed some light on if/how much this change may affect their "product". Asking this since I know friends working at companies that were DRASTICALLY affected by the Apple advertising changes in terms of user targetability (and hence revenue) and I'm wondering if this change will be similar.

Cookies are the easiest way to shore and share information but far from the only way. If it affects someone's product, it is not hard to fingerprint browsers.

It does seem relatively more difficult to fingerprint Safari on iOS which at least takes a sizeable % of web browsing out of the equation.

Re: Firefox rolls out Total Cookie Protection by default to all users

#270
post #148
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RFC2109, from 1997, had this: 8.3 Unexpected Cookie Sharing A user agent should make every attempt to prevent the sharing of session information between hosts that are in different domains. Embedded or inlined objects may cause particularly severe privacy problems if they can be used to share cookies between disparate hosts. For example, a malicious server could embed cookie information for host a.com in a URI for a…

It's really weird that they claim there privacy work started in 2015. Netscape Navigator add cross site cookie blocking at some point, and firefox has always (?) had it. The innovation here seems to be that they further partition by the URL in the address bar. It's frustrating that browsers have been fighting and losing this war for 25 years. (Presumably they still don't block browser fingerprinting, so sites will ju…

Internet explorer used to ask the user before saving cookies.

And the server had to declare what cookies would be used for in machine readable form (P3P) which the browser used to decide if it want to allow the cookie (google blatantly lied)

And more recently DNT.

A graveyard of failed attempts at improving privacy

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