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Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

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Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#261

Post by signatoremo »

medler wrote: post #226
bin_bash wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly I don't think you're very good at reading executives' words: you have to read through the lines and notice what they're not saying. Nowhere in that does he say outright where dealers fit into an online, fixed price world. He only makes super vague statements like "dealers will be more specialized." Reads to me like Jim isn't planning on dealers being around in the future but he's being vague enough to try not…

My interpretation is informed by the knowledge that what he’s saying is not legal in most of the United States. It’s understood that dealers cut into Ford’s profit margin, but Ford is not at liberty to change the laws in numerous states.

I’m not familiar with laws pertaining to the dealership. Why can’t Ford sell EVs the same way Tesla do? In the same states. They still sell ICEs via the dealers after all. Nothing changes

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#262

Post by fma »

workingon wrote: post #51
eatonphil wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dumb questions: isn't this just the market at work though? Why is it actually a problem for car makers if the car is sold above MSRP? Just a worse consumer experience that reflects poorly on the brand? Sony seems to deal with it with sold-out ps5 and resellers gauging. I mean you're not the only one suggesting this is a problem. Ford clearly seems to have a problem with dealerships and their markup I guess (or I misr…

It’s not a problem now, it will be a problem when you can easily get a Ford direct at MSRP but you have to pay dealer markup for a Chevy.

"...We've got to go to non-negotiated price..."

Who's to say Ford can't "markup" either? To me that's exactly what it is...non-negotiated. If the dealer can sell a Mach-E for $5k above MSRP, Ford is leaving money on the table. Ford can bump up their non-negotiated price just as much. Why not? What are you going to do, go to another dealership and negotiate?

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#263

Post by colinmhayes »

Alupis wrote: post #127
paxys wrote: post #39

A lot has been said about the dealership model in the last few years, and the almost universal consensus is that it is an unnecessary and predatory industry and all auto makers should just sell cars directly like Tesla does. That being said, is there any counterpoint to this view? Are there any benefits that dealerships offer today over direct sales? What would we lose if we got rid of every dealership? If there is t…

When I see "No Haggle, Fixed-Price, Online Only", I think "Rip Off", and I can't be the only one. It's not that I enjoy haggling with car salesmen, walking out the door and getting hunted down in the parking lot like an animal... I don't... in fact I hate it. But at the end of the day I get a deal I'm satisfied and comfortable with - and it's always below MSRP - far below. I think what we're seeing here is a combinat…

You're negotiating by going to the other car makers website. It's actually much easier to find a good deal since it's much easier to discover prices compared to dealers.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#264

Post by sammalloy »

thrill wrote: post #112
peter422 wrote: post #30

I recently bought a Prius Prime and the amount of work I had to do to buy it at MSRP was ridiculous. If you have an oversubscribed car the dealer model just doesn’t work. If car companies are going to compete in the future they will have to either eliminate dealers or at least force some type of structure to the sales process, otherwise people will gravitate to the companies that do (like Tesla).

The last car I bought I showed up at the dealer with a certified check and it still took over three hours to complete the deal. I'm done with that business model.

You got off easy. Took me eight hours at the dealer spread out over two days, with an additional total commuting time of two hours, so ten hours to buy a car. And you thought that was it? Nope. Took them an additional six months to issue the completed registration. When they say the dealer sucks, it’s always an understatement.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#265

Post by grogenaut »

wumpus wrote: post #149
SnowHill9902 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try the car. Pay cash. Negotiate. Sell yours. Choose from different brands. Chat with the owner. Get serviced.

People who like negotiations generally think they're good at it. Guess what? The dealer sells multiple cars per day. You don't know enough to be a good negotiator against them. Same thing as venture capital vs company founders. Founders found a couple of companies which do a couple of rounds each. VCs make way more investments.

I don't think I'm a good negotiator, I just think I'm better at it than you who is dealing with a "no-haggle" dealer.

You don't have to be faster than the bear, just faster than the slowest person to come out better.

When I buy cars I shop around, there's surprising variance in dealers depending on what's going on with them. If a no haggle place has the best price I'll buy that. I haven't had that ever be the case as they quote MSRP.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#266

Post by Brendinooo »

chemmail wrote: post #210
serf wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That being said, is there any counterpoint to this view? Are there any benefits that dealerships offer today over direct sales? the only thing I can think to say is that they are still a convenient repair facility, Tesla is fairly notorious for slow turn-around for repair.[0] I think a nice middle-ground would be the conversion of dealerships into showrooms/receiving-centers/repair facilities -- oust the sales porti…

There is virtually none. My brother and my best friend sold cars and jumps around. Now they are at a no haggle Toyota dealership that basically sells at MSRP. It is generally much better for everyone involved. Just make it like a Tesla experience, throw you the keys, if you want it here is the prices. Don't have to deal with BS anywhere. The "dealership" model needs to be killed off. It's probably just a few dozen mo…

I think that’s far less true then you think it is.

I don’t love the dealer experience, but they distribute the wealth of the auto industry regionally instead of concentrating it in Dearborn or wherever. Local dealers are always sponsoring little league teams and paying property taxes on relatively valuable real estate in a way that Tesla never will.

I dunno, it’s hard to argue this if you take it as gospel that the economy is at its best when it’s finding efficiency at whatever cost. I don’t feel super strongly, but I do think there’s something to this.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#267

Post by bin_bash »

colinmhayes wrote: post #254
gpm wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ford is however at the liberty to lobby for laws to change, and to simply stop selling (electric) vehicles where the laws don't allow for direct sales - like Tesla did. Tesla has pretty convincingly demonstrated that it's possible to run a car company in the US without paying off the dealerships. It's only going to be easier for the second mover here to also stop.

Tesla had a big advantage because they never had dealers. Many states have laws banning online sales once dealerships are established.

I wonder if maybe they're preparing to fully spin off the EV models into its own corporation for this exact reason: https://chargedevs.com/newswire/ford-to-spin-off-its-evs-int...

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#268

Post by grogenaut »

reaperducer wrote: post #252
grogenaut wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've bought 3 cars since 2008, I've spent $0 at the dealer on maintenance, they're all ICE... you shouldn't be going to the dealer unless it's warranty work. [well partly true, had a covered recall]. That said I had a dealer cuss me out for bringing them a quote from a mechanic for the same clutch replacement. "I can't f**ing cover my dealership like that" as if it was my problem. Same dealer who charged me $2k for a…

Sounds great pre pandemic, but these days the indies can't get parts the way the dealers can. Heck, the dealers even have a hard time getting parts.

Right now sure... pay who you have to if you need the part. But supply issues will get solved, this is a temp situation.

I'm solving the interim by having 4 vehicles + mass transit + wfh.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#269

Post by hackernewds »

zeeb wrote: post #47

I imagine the +$20k "market adjustment" markups on the F-150 lightning (and other EV's and hybrids) [0] by dealerships probably factored into this decision. [0]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/02/12/ford-gm-d...

Ford has cautioned that they would ban dealerships for this practice.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#270

Post by CydeWeys »

spywaregorilla wrote: post #49
qbasic_forever wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-negotiable car sales aren't new, Saturn was famous for doing it in the 90s. Their whole deal was to try to target younger buyers that didn't like the typical haggling process. Toyota did the same thing with their Scion sub-brand for the same reasons too.

Not online though. I don't want to talk to a dealer.

It was a different time back then. If they were still around today they might well be doing it online too.
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