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Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

patrick-breyer.de

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Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#261

Post by giaour »

caterpi11ar wrote: post #231
Ensorceled wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, more interestingly, do you think you could cite where (a) the Bible forbids abortion or (b) the Bible makes clear that life begins at any point prior to birth? I too, am interested in this answer and have not misrepresented any biblical passages.

Ok, if you're willing to renounce the style of 14 year old who just saw their first Hitchslap video, I will offer you some Biblical and non-Biblical Christian arguments against abortion. Various Psalms (22, 139) in which the narrator speaks of themselves in the womb being created by God. The Gospel of Luke also uses the same word for an infant before and after He is born. It is also a heresy to suggest that Jesus in…

> I think it suggests that life-at-conception was so obvious to the authors that they didn't feel the need to distinguish between abortion and murder

Mosaic law does distinguish between violently inducing a miscarriage (punishable by a fine to be paid to the father) and murder (punishable by death) in Exodus 21. It is unclear whether there was any penalty for a self-induced miscarriage, though that would not have been uncommon in other ancient societies.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#262

Post by media-trivial »

JasonFruit wrote: post #153
schroeding wrote: post #50

I'm just tired, to be honest. Even if we prevent this exact law (proposal), a few years down the line there probably will be another attempt. And again, and again. Just like it happend with the mandatory data retention laws for ISPs. I really try to stay optimistic on this topic, but it's really hard. :/

It's kind of like when a website begs for permission to use your location over and over even though you say no every time, until you screw up and say yes — and then you never hear about it again. These ideas arise over and over until one makes it through, and then we have lost that bit of liberty for good.

Which browser are you using? Chrome doesn't ask again if you say no.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#263

Post by belter »

prof-dr-ir wrote: post #245
SiempreViernes wrote: post #85

I went three indirections down and I still can't find any actual quotes or even summaries of concrete proposals, so I'm surprised how many people can confidently judge that these unexplained proposals are a dumpster fire solely on the basis that they aim to precent child sexual abuse material... The most specific thing I found was a linked document that laid out three possible legislation options, all in very loose l…

As you can easily check, Mr. Breyer's website has been at the top of HN multiple times in the past year or so, and invariably the comment section becomes an anti-EU pitchfork party based on nothing more than the linked text and various unhelpful stereotypes. Comments like yours, which justifiably ask for a primary source, have never been getting the attention they deserve. So let me explicitly go against the grain he…

>"... I also believe that the EU will not "break secure encryption" (or make it illegal) in the foreseeable future. And if Mr. Breyer or anyone else would like to convince me of the alternative then please show me some concrete evidence first..."

"EU’s resolution on encryption foreshadows likely anti-encryption push": https://protonmail.com/blog/eu-attack-on-encryption/

"EFF Tells E.U. Commission: Don't Break Encryption": https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2022/03/eff-tells-eu-commissio...

"Encryption: Council adopts resolution on security through encryption and security despite encryption": https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2020...

Particularly in the last reference you can hear it directly from the wolf's mouth: "...resolution on security through encryption and security despite encryption..."

In other words, encryption they can access...

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#264

Post by belter »

logifail wrote: post #229
sixhobbits wrote: post #21

Have to jump through a few links to get to the 'protest' part. > Protest now by contacting the responsible EU Commissioners! Experience shows that a phone call is more effective than e-mails or letters. Officially, the planned obligation for messaging and chat control is called “legislation to effectively tackle child sexual abuse online”. > If an office tries to redirect you to the EU Commissioner for Home Affairs (…

> Ms von der Leyen I'm deeply sceptical of Ms von der Leyen. Not least because of how she got her job. She manages to get the press to talk about the EU giving Ukraine "a speedy response" re: joining the EU[0][1][2] Then Macron says it will take "take decades"[3] [4] I'm sorry, but once you reach that threshold of political posturing, if von der Leyen promised that tomorrow is definitely Wednesday then I'd immediatel…

Ms von der Leyen career is a train wreck of non stopping disasters. It makes sense she would end up as the non-elected European Commission chief...

"Ursula von der Leyen has always left a trail of disaster": https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/ursula-von-der-leyen-has...

"The scandal hanging over Ursula von der Leyen": https://www.politico.eu/article/the-scandal-hanging-over-urs...

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#265

Post by pseudo0 »

toffi-fee wrote: post #253

Stupid question: Wouldnʼt it be alright if an open source messenger scans messages locally against a secret word list and only sends it to police if there's a hit, otherwise only send it to the recipient with the usual end-to-end encryption? The secret word list would need to be curated and digitally signed by several parties, including data security advocates to ensure that it doesn't simply contain the entire dicti…

That's the Chinese approach: https://www.businessinsider.com/china-winter-olympics-app-ha...

Also, having a secret, local wordlist is a challenge. Eg. What is stopping someone from testing every possible one-word message, using the reporting functionality as an oracle?

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#266

Post by belter »

logifail wrote: post #228
harabat wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those who won't read the article: it provides a few ways to protest [0] (contact Commissioners, request media to cover this issue, get active on social media) and offers a list of arguments [1] (such policies don't work against CSAM but make it worse, while better/more targeted methods are being ignored). If anyone has experience calling to protest, could they share it here? Otherwise, the simplest course of acti…

> the simplest course of action might be to copy-paste the arguments given [..] Not wishing to seem defeatist, but is there much (any?) evidence that sending copy-pasted arguments to elected representatives actually achieves anything?

It does because these are EU officials. They are four layers removed from contact with any EU citizens. Sometimes they do bump into one, while exiting some of the best Brussels restaurants after a lunch with a lobbyist.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#267

Post by belter »

ravar wrote: post #246
kvetching wrote: post #102

Complete and total invasion of privacy. They always choose the most egregious crime to push through a cecession of rights. If you oppose this, you are supporting pedophiles. But fuck them. Don't let them gaslight you. There are countless broken laws that could be caught if only they could see our data. How long until they force Google or Apple to report someone to the authorities if their GPS says they are travelling…

Think about all the american politicians who visited jeff epstiens island and then backed bills to allegedly fight pedophilia.

Not only politicians...

"Friendly Reminder That Bill Gates Took The Lolita Express Four Years After Epstein Was A Registered Sex Offender"

https://www.eviemagazine.com/post/bill-gates-took-lolita-exp...

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#268

Post by JasonFruit »

media-trivial wrote: post #262
JasonFruit wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of like when a website begs for permission to use your location over and over even though you say no every time, until you screw up and say yes — and then you never hear about it again. These ideas arise over and over until one makes it through, and then we have lost that bit of liberty for good.

Which browser are you using? Chrome doesn't ask again if you say no.

I may honestly be misremembering, because I use Brave, whose behavior usually follows Chrome. At any rate, it's typical of the "Can we? You sure? You sure? You sure? OK, thanks!" anti-pattern we all hate.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#269

Post by reedjosh »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #226
reedjosh wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lysander Spooner wrote about this very thing in the 1800s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysander_Spooner Many people didn't have a choice. Governments at the start are like mafias and will fight you until you acquiesce. The history of the US is riddled with federal government takeovers and increased taxation of people who did not want it.

The history of the US is not even 300 years at this point. Humans have been creating societies and forms of governance for at least 10,000 years. Get some perspective.

More people have existed in the last 300 years than in the previous 10,000 years.

Get some perspective.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#270

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

reedjosh wrote: post #269
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The history of the US is not even 300 years at this point. Humans have been creating societies and forms of governance for at least 10,000 years. Get some perspective.

More people have existed in the last 300 years than in the previous 10,000 years. Get some perspective.

We're talking about the nature of government and governance. Size/scale does matter to some extent, but much less than the range of variants that human societies have come up with over history.
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