Canberra flagged, Tasmania exempted, Sydney and Melbourne upvoted.
Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year
261–270 of 1001 posts
Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year
#262Greed is destabilizing society everywhere you look.
1. Hire more nurses to spread the load around
2. Pay existing nurses more
3. Incentivize people to get the technical training required to become a nurse.
"But what about my boss's 4th home?" I know. I am worried about that too. i pay 1500/mo to live there, and the costs will probably trickle down to me. we will have to figure something out.
"But we don't have the money! Who is going to pay for it?" Well. Then I guess the goose is cooked. We no longer have the resources to run a functioning society. I want you to think about that, and maybe think if we could get the funding from somewhere.
We are out of trained workers. The money diet our overlords put us on has officially starved us. Welcome to the 3rd world. Hope you saved up enough money for a ticket to Elysium.
Nobody wants to take out student loan debt anymore. If you are over 30, let me fill you in: cost of college has gotten even more insane than when we were in school.
we are seeing the same thing in our courts. Everyone is mad at the PDX DA for turning people loose all the time, but the secret is: there are not enough public defenders, and we can't hold people indefinitely without cause. There are literally not enough lawyers graduating from law school/graduated in the past to fill these spots.
Our society is falling apart and all anyone can talk about is how lazy the homeless are and obsess over what genitals people are born with.
Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
Insurance companies. Everything is controlled by insurance companies. You can’t do anything unless it’s exactly how insurance wants and only for what insurance will pay. It limits everything, including how every profession can be compensated simply because you can’t easily hire somebody for more than what insurance will pay for their services. You can, but the funds have to come from somewhere.
Insurance is the only industry where they agree to pay for something (in this case, "medical care"), but then after service has been rendered can decide to pay less, or not pay at all, or stop paying that provider altogether, etc. This combined with hospitals being run by non-physicians*, and people thinking being able to Google and read WebMD qualifies them to argue with their doctor about treatment plans**, healthc…
> * In stark contrast to asking questions and trying to understand. But I have family members who are the "look everything up and then try to tell my doctor how they're going to treat me" ilk and it's crazy.
I think this is exacerbated by doctors a lot of the time. I'm in Canada so it's obviously a very different system, but visits to a GP often have strict time limits and "one issue only" rules. When you can only talk about one symptom, and you only have 5 minutes to explain it, it's natural to try and do homework first to see what you're going to use your limited time on.
Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year
#264Earlier quoted context omitted.
Insurance is the only industry where they agree to pay for something (in this case, "medical care"), but then after service has been rendered can decide to pay less, or not pay at all, or stop paying that provider altogether, etc. This combined with hospitals being run by non-physicians*, and people thinking being able to Google and read WebMD qualifies them to argue with their doctor about treatment plans**, healthc…
> * I strongly believe that only physicians should be running hospitals. Certainly not administrators whose only education is an MHA and only experience is working for for-profit health companies. The skills need to run a hospital are quite different than those required to be a doctor. I'm not saying hospitals aren't unique - I believe they are and their adminstration is highly specialized. Doctors should inform the…
Why would not paying doctors be the natural consequence? It’s a fairly significant jump to go from don’t let cost be a primary decision driver to let’s force doctors to work without pay.
Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year
#265My wife is an ICU physician, so I've been watching this from the sidelines. I can't emphasize enough on how badly COVID broke the system. There's always been problem with staffing and burnout. However, COVID really brought out the worst in people. The patient population became far more abusive than it had in the past and this was during a period where all healthcare providers were working extremely hard, not seeing their families, and sacrificing their personal health to help people. Then, a large part of society decided that COVID wasn't an issue, refused to mask, and refused to vaccinate. At some point, a large portion of providers decided enough was enough and quit:
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/workforce/if-1-in-5-he...
Now, the problem is that when people started quitting, there were fewer nurses to take care of the patients and their ratios went up. During normal times, a floor nurse might be 6-8 patients to one nurse, a step down unit might be 4-1, and an ICU might be 1-1 or 1-2. It depends on the level of care required. Now, they're doing more than double this on a regular basis. And, frankly, they can't do it, at least safely. There's a number that a nurse can call if they believe they have an unsafe number of patients in order to get some kind of legal protection, but they still have to see that number of patients. And, frankly, it's incredibly stressful because they really, truly can't take care of that many patients, so they quit. A friend of my wife is a nurse trainer at a large hospital. They're having 80% of new nurses quit during their onboarding process because the ratios are absurd. A good portion of my wife's time is spent figuring out who's the least sick patient to discharge from the ICU because they don't have the staff.
Unfortunately, I don't think we're even close for this to being over either. The constant refrain is that COVID is the new normal and we need to adjust. I would contend that a new normal would imply a stable operating point and I do not believe this to be the case. It's going to take a really long time to restaff appropriately where the patient ratios and stress level manageable. Long time means years because, really, hospitals want and need BSNs and not just associates level training. In the mean time, every time we have a COVID surge, the hospital gets flooded, everyone gets overworked and abused, and more people quit.
Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year
#266As a patient I dread interacting with healthcare... but I can only imagine how horrible it would be to be on the clinical staff where you are wedged between people needing care and 52 bosses trying to minimize risk, maximize billing, and reduce expenses.
Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year
#267Find it a bit amazing that so many here act as if the past two years are the sole reason. Few people have been as relentlessly toxic and unforgiving on social media as nurses. As a child of a nurse, that job has sucked for at least the past 40 years. The pay is average. Workplace is a cesspool of gossip and toxic work culture. Management is generally terrible. Also, the pandemic has exposed how many in the profession…
> This exodus may be a good thing in the end.
Hrmmm. Pretty sure if 90% of nurses actually left the profession it would be a serious problem.
That being said, I would be surprised if this actually happened. If even 5% left the profession would probably become more lucrative, since pay would have to rise to retain those who remain. Meanwhile, although nursing is not super highly compensated, the alternatives for someone who has only a nursing education and skillset will likely be worse. That may lead to a gap in ideation about leaving vs actually leaving, because the fact of the matter is that we all still have to put food on the table.
Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year
#268Earlier quoted context omitted.
Insurance companies. Everything is controlled by insurance companies. You can’t do anything unless it’s exactly how insurance wants and only for what insurance will pay. It limits everything, including how every profession can be compensated simply because you can’t easily hire somebody for more than what insurance will pay for their services. You can, but the funds have to come from somewhere.
Insurance is the only industry where they agree to pay for something (in this case, "medical care"), but then after service has been rendered can decide to pay less, or not pay at all, or stop paying that provider altogether, etc. This combined with hospitals being run by non-physicians*, and people thinking being able to Google and read WebMD qualifies them to argue with their doctor about treatment plans**, healthc…
Let me add two more payment scenarios:
1) Pay in the form of a credit card number, where the provider ends up paying CC processing fees to process the payment.
2) Ask for the money back, months later.
Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
Insurance companies. Everything is controlled by insurance companies. You can’t do anything unless it’s exactly how insurance wants and only for what insurance will pay. It limits everything, including how every profession can be compensated simply because you can’t easily hire somebody for more than what insurance will pay for their services. You can, but the funds have to come from somewhere.
This. I had a great doc until a few years back. Best doc I've ever had by a long ways. He'd spend a good amount of time with you, actually listen to your concerns and even bring up recent papers he'd seen on topics related to my health issues. A few years ago he decided to mostly get out of doctoring because he was tired of dealing with insurance companies. For a while he went to a retainer model ($2K/year up front,…
MDVIP does that model in the US too.
Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
Insurance companies. Everything is controlled by insurance companies. You can’t do anything unless it’s exactly how insurance wants and only for what insurance will pay. It limits everything, including how every profession can be compensated simply because you can’t easily hire somebody for more than what insurance will pay for their services. You can, but the funds have to come from somewhere.
Consolidation's a big part of it. The last decade has seen nearly all the small practices and offices in my city gobbled up by a couple of huge companies. With that comes the MBAs and the bureaucracy.
The healthcare in my area is like watching feudal lords rapidly claiming their territory. With central fortresses (hospitals) and outposts (smaller treatment centers).