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The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

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Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#261

Post by throw10920 »

Kbelicius wrote: post #179
scarface74 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you also going to force phone manufacturers to provide OS updates for 7 years like Apple is doing and security updates for nine years? I can get my battery replaced for $50-$70. If the EU had forced a common standard before USB C became prevalent we would be stuck with USB A. Government moves way too slowly and doesn’t have a clue about technology. GDPR made web browsing worse with cookie pop ups everywhere.

> If the EU had forced a common standard before USB C became prevalent we would be stuck with USB A. No we wouldn't. > GDPR made web browsing worse with cookie pop ups everywhere. Cookie pop ups are not happening because of GDPR.

> No we wouldn't.

This is a content-free denial without argument.

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#262

Post by throw10920 »

> Don't smartphones... kind of suck?

Yes, but so do normal computers, just in different ways.

Android and iOS both greatly restrict user freedom, sure. But they're both far easier to use than Linux, and "just work" way more of the time.

Yeah, neither mobile OS can do packages or shared libraries - but at least they can't get stuck in an inconsistent state, like apt.

The toolchains for Android/iOS are absolutely abysmal - but the OSes themselves come with a capability-based security model that is infinitely better than what's available on Linux.

All software is bad.

(although, to the other point of "phone hardware has bad longevity" - yes, that's completely correct)

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#263

Post by seba_dos1 »

noirbot wrote: post #247
seba_dos1 wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get it. Since 2006 I have never had to clean-slate my GNU/Linux installation, on both PCs or phones. I only ever did it out of choice, usually with new hardware being a pretext to try a different distro or installation method - which happened total a handful of times during those 15 years. Debian (and apt) in particular has never made me even worry that I'll have to reinstall my OS, and I'm sort of a power us…

Honestly, you're probably just better at using it than I am. I'm sure most of my "I guess I'll just clean-slate" moments could be fixed if I put in the time and knew the system better, but I don't, and in the moment where my computer is half-broken and the windowing system has stopped displaying any text on anything, or just not rending half of the icons, I have the choice of either making it a learning opportunity,…

That makes sense. I do however have an impression that GNU/Linux gives its user much larger surface to actually grasp what's going on, provided that they're actually willing to spend time on it. I have used Windows for quite some time before switching, and I'm also not unfamiliar with macOS, but when I had to troubleshoot some issues on these platforms I often felt like I have reached a dead end despite of me willing to spend time on it. I guess someone who's an expert with those systems wouldn't have such a hard time, but in my experience finding relevant resources to learn what's going on has always been infinitely easier on GNU/Linux, which in turn makes me much happier as a user. Problems always happen regardless of which OS you use, and my computer is a tool that I need to take care of in order to be able to do my work, so an OS that allows troubleshooting to be "a learning opportunity" rather than "a trigger for reinstallation" gains a lot of bonus points in my book.

To be honest, I kinda felt similar with Android (I think it was LineageOS) at one point, which I have used for a few years on a secondary phone. The system shell went into some broken state where it didn't want to display any quick settings at all, and my search for how to debug such issues (or even just some information on where does it store its state) has been completely fruitless. Turns out nobody does that; I'd have to build my own image from scratch and dig into the source code to debug it, and I have decided that it's a bit too much and that I have better things to do. Rebuilding a single .deb package is fine, rebuilding a whole OS - not so much. Now I'm using GNU/Linux on my phone as well, and debugging things like that is much easier and more approachable, with tons of resources around the Web and people who are willing to help.

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#264

Post by woojoo666 »

usrn wrote: post #105
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just editing fucking textfiles and copying it back to a normal PC (that isn't a mac) is a real bitch. Especially if you don't have an internet connection. It's almost as bad as a ti84+ honestly. If you're on Android, I suggest looking at F-Droid; there exist decent text editors and file managers, and failing all else Termux manages to drag a decent amount of sanity in.

I had an Android. Every update made Termux less and less capable (IIRC exec is very complex or impossible in a recent one.) Now I have a Pinephone running a normal X11 DE and I don't have to tolerate an ounce of stupidity. Sure there are legitimate good faith defects in the software but nothing is intentionally broken just for the sake of it. ssh just works (the phone shipped with it preinstalled) vim just works scp…

You use desktop firefox on a smartphone? Got any screenshots I'm very curious how usable that actually is

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#265

Post by hilbert42 »

scns wrote: post #200
hilbert42 wrote: post #107

"Don't smartphones... kind of suck?" Yes, they absolutely do. "How many times have you had to replace a phone in the past 10 years? Do you have a drawer of random crap with a growing pile of phones, " Answer: 'many' in both instances. Where possible, I root my phones and install LineageOS or other similar 'open' O/S. In instances where there's no LineageOS available or where LineageOS doesn't provide a full implement…

I recommend Foxy Droid as a alternative to the official F-Droid client. Much leaner/snappier, missing some features i can live without YMMV.

Thanks for that info I'll give it a try.

So often I try to update F-Droid apps and the site isn't available or it takes forever to download updates.

It's not the F-Droid app either (i.e.: not an old version etc.) because I experience the same delay using Aurora Droid (which I didn't mention above), as you'd probably know it also accesses F-Droid's site.

I've often wondered if F-Droid's slowness is due to my location/time zone as I've found it fastest when the US and Europe are asleep. I'm in UTC+10 hrs.

Could be that I mostly access the site during hours when backups or maint is been done.

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#266

Post by vondro »

> Just taking apart a modern iPhone is a warranty-voiding, screen-cracking, glue-ripping operation.

From my experience iPhones are as hard (or a bit easier) to open as other waterproofed phones, but battery and display replacements are actually prioritized in the design and easy to conduct once you open the thing. Cryptographically paired components are the problem with iphones, not the way they are built.

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#267

Post by dtx1 »

emteycz wrote: post #249
hef19898 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not using Aurora and micro made banking impossible in my case... Well, I almost completely de-googled so I don't complain too much. Maybe keeping my old phone for banking only and using a pinephone for everything else would work, I have to investigate that!

I just use the web version of internet banking. One of my banks doesn't have responsive website, but for sending money and setting card limits it's still more than enough.

Lots of banks require their particular 2FA Apps

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#268

Post by emteycz »

dtx1 wrote: post #267
emteycz wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just use the web version of internet banking. One of my banks doesn't have responsive website, but for sending money and setting card limits it's still more than enough.

Lots of banks require their particular 2FA Apps

Yeah, I went to the local branch, pulled out my old Nokia 3310 and asked them to install the app. They promptly switched me back to SMS auth.

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#269

Post by 0xdeadb00f »

nabaraz wrote: post #18
mikece wrote: post #2

Why LineageOS and not GrapheneOS? I have a Pixel 4a with GrapheneOS and really like it. The lack of Firebase Cloud Messaging (Google's push notifications service) isn't an issue for personal usage; for work I still use an iPhone because I don't want to put things like MS Teams on Graphene OS. As for PinePhone: it's interesting that this article puts LineageOS and PinePhone together since the latter cannot run the for…

The choice is between GrapheneOS + Sandboxed Google play vs LineageOS + MicroG. If you care too much about privacy, GrapheneOS is the way to go. If you want a balance between privacy and usability, LineageOS is the way to go. Also, GrapheneOS only supports Pixel phones. I have tried CalyxOS but there are too many issues.

The "usability" thing is quite frankly, bullshit.

Sandboxed play services is quite literally play services you're allowed to deny permissions to, it offers way more compatibility than microg which replaces play services with it's own thing

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#270

Post by synicalx »

jrm4 wrote: post #252
synicalx wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I beg to differ. They might not be suitable for "power users" or Stallman but for most people they're fine. I've got at least a few non-technical friends that haven't owned a laptop or PC in years and do all their "computing" from their phone and maybe an iPad. The only reason my parents still have a computer is because they like to look at their photos on a large screen, but outside of that one use-case (which could…

You fundamentally misunderstand and misrepresent what is commonly meant by "general purpose." General purpose is not merely a set of specific purposes that a lot of people are into. General purpose means I can freely change it if I want to.

I cannot find a single source that agrees with you on that. The first 3 pages of Google when I search "general purpose computer definition" all show results that largely equate to;

"A general-purpose computer is one that, given the appropriate application and required time, should be able to perform most common computing tasks."

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