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Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

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Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#261

Post by Touche »

nmat wrote: post #213
watwut wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Critic reviews are prescriptive: what they think the masses should watch. This does not seem to be accurate description of movie reviews I have read. Like, not at all.

Part of a critic's job is to educate people. A good critic can explain why a certain film is groundbreaking and why another film is recycling ideas that have been done thousands of times. The critic's end-goal is to push the industry to make better films not because of critics, but because the public demands it.

This doesn't seem right at all, a critic's job is to drive page views and nothing more. What you are describing is how critic's like to perceive themselves.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#262

Post by dfinninger »

okasaki wrote: post #2

I've done this analysis for games. My theory was that the correlation was falling because the ratings of old games were dominated by players playing old games now and then rating them, and they were more likely to play games for which there is already a consensus that they are good (old bad games are mostly just forgotten). Whereas for current games the games being played are more random.

Another part of that is that it seems like critics play a lot more games than the average consumer (or, at least, me) does and may get burnt out easier.

Most reviewers I watched heading into Horizon: Forbidden West said that it was just "more of the same". But I didn't play the most recent Far Cry or Assassin's Creed or whatever else they were comparing to. It was fresher for me playing though it than it was for them, constantly comparing.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#263

Post by [deleted] »

bmelton wrote: post #15

There's an interesting concept with user reviews, in that they're inherently OF the people, whereas critical reviews are FOR the people. In a way, critical reviews are like celebrity chef cookbooks in that they should be considered aspirational. What we HOPE to be watching to please our senses of austerity, versus the pulp trash we might actually prefer to be watching. Similarly, sure, we might WISH we were making /…

[deleted]

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#264

Post by phatfish »

anothernewdude wrote: post #253
cwkoss wrote: post #186

Critic reviews are prescriptive: what they think the masses should watch. User reviews are retrospective: how much did they actually enjoy watching the movie. I think there has always been a fundamental disconnect, in that critics think the masses should be watching 'smarter', 'more artistic' or, less flatteringly, more pretentious movies. The world has become a lot more political over the past couple decades. I woul…

Except users who don't watch the movie don't rate it. So they're self-selected. Critics are not.

It's worse than that, it's how much the fans of the movie enjoyed watching it. Most people who watch a movie don't go online and rate it.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#265

Post by humanrebar »

unfocussed_mike wrote: post #257
humanrebar wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Movie critics tend to give mediocre movies a bump when they like the message or think it otherwise is politically desirable. Similarly, critics tend to downplay movies that have a more... blue collar?... appeal, no matter the artistry or purpose of the film. For instance, Taken gets 59% with critics on Rotten Tomatoes. It was a hugely important and impactful film. It basically spawned/revived a whole subgenre of acti…

> For instance, Taken gets 59% with critics on Rotten Tomatoes. It was a hugely important and impactful film. It basically spawned/revived a whole subgenre of action film. A fair number of critics looked down on that film because it is casually chauvinistic, nasty and bigoted. (I absolutely loathe it. Want to see how that film could have been? Watch Man On Fire .) I don't know whether you can support your "politicall…

Maybe, but skimming reviews they mostly seem to think it's boring or lowbrow or something.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#266

Post by JadeNB »

cwkoss wrote: post #186

Critic reviews are prescriptive: what they think the masses should watch. User reviews are retrospective: how much did they actually enjoy watching the movie. I think there has always been a fundamental disconnect, in that critics think the masses should be watching 'smarter', 'more artistic' or, less flatteringly, more pretentious movies. The world has become a lot more political over the past couple decades. I woul…

> Critic reviews are prescriptive: what they think the masses should watch.

I think this really depends on the critics. Lots of critics never explicitly articulate a philosophy—or, if they do, I don't bother to seek it out—but, for one notable example, Roger Ebert explicitly subscribed to the philosophy that you should review a movie based on whether it achieves its goals, not on whether its goals are the same as your goals.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#267

Post by alan-hn »

stonemetal12 wrote: post #185
alan-hn wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as a tangent: let's start with the AI/ML produced movies already. I honestly think they would be hilarious

It is just a short but "Today is spaceship day" is weirdly hilarious.

Yes this is what I want

What beauty, thank you

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#268

Post by the_af »

speeder wrote: post #223
the_af wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "they're comfortable these days watching reboots of the same superhero movies" This in particular. I don't mind the odd superhero movie, but they seem wildly overrepresented in big budget movies. It feels it's also frequently a retelling of Spiderman or Batman. I don't think I can stand another Spidey or Batman origin story, or another "...and the next villain is hinted at to be the Joker!". Occasionally there's a…

Batman currently is the only profitable DC franchise... For example there was an article making rounds about how of the Top40 most sold DC comics recently, Batman is in 37 of them. Basically, Batman sells, other DC properties, not so much. Even Superman is struggling. I have no idea why is that, but I suspect that is because most DC characters require too much skill to write well (for example superman is literally in…

Interesting.

I liked Watchmen's take on a Superman-like character. Morally gray stuff like Dr. Manhattan being used to win the Vietnam War (as an analogue of nuclear weapons) and him becoming so powerful he becomes detached from mankind. Why would Superman care about us, when we are like ants to him?

There's also Red Son, a truly interesting take on... commie Superman.

But there's so many times you can tell those stories, I guess. Superman is a really boring character.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#269

Post by Lyapunov_Lover »

cwkoss wrote: post #186

Critic reviews are prescriptive: what they think the masses should watch. User reviews are retrospective: how much did they actually enjoy watching the movie. I think there has always been a fundamental disconnect, in that critics think the masses should be watching 'smarter', 'more artistic' or, less flatteringly, more pretentious movies. The world has become a lot more political over the past couple decades. I woul…

I disagree that critic reviews are inherently prescriptive. Major blockbusters rely on cliches for the same reason that supermarket chains spend ridiculous amounts of money trying to get every store to look and feel the same: people find familiarity comforting. But to people who watch thousands upon thousands of movies this gets astoundingly boring.

Take any hobby. Literally any one of them. The people who are really into it, whatever you are thinking about, will prefer different stuff from what casual fans like.

Why do people die from erotic self-asphyxiation? Because we have a compulsion to escalate and to push things further. We need novelty. We need new stuff. We go mad if it's just the same thing over and over. At least that's true for most of us. Not everyone takes it all that far, but when you invest a significant amount of time doing one thing in particular, you're always going to want to take it to greater heights.

And that's the thing about critic reviews: they represent movie fans suffering from the cinematic equivalent of erotic self-asphyxiation. Old, tired cliches and predictable plots? No. They want something they haven't seen before. Art movies are incredibly weird, and film critics love them.

Imagine your job is rating beers. And you think pilsners are fine but super boring. But people get incredibly mad at you for dissing their favorite pilsners, and they think you're a pretentious snob for recommending imperial stouts. And they want you to give super-high ratings to ... run of the mill pilsners. That's what I imagine it's like being a film critic.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#270

Post by phatfish »

cwkoss wrote: post #186

Critic reviews are prescriptive: what they think the masses should watch. User reviews are retrospective: how much did they actually enjoy watching the movie. I think there has always been a fundamental disconnect, in that critics think the masses should be watching 'smarter', 'more artistic' or, less flatteringly, more pretentious movies. The world has become a lot more political over the past couple decades. I woul…

In my experience yes, critics were cringing over the "bad" movies you liked as a child. I don't think anything has changed, or that there is anything wrong with that.

Critics are paid to watch as many movies a possible, even ones they think they will hate (but obviously should keep an open mind). An average movie goer doesn't deliberately watch a movie they won't like, so there is already a disconnect.

With the internet amplifying fan culture critics are more likely to be seen as "wrong".

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