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Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

businessinsider.com

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Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#261

Post by skeptikal »

This is Germany doing something to not be seen doing anything. Doing something for lack of a plan is usually a mistake.

Everything of value of this subsidiary has (pipelines, stored gas, etc), is physically in Germany and already subject to German law. The stored gas wasn’t going anywhere without the German regulator’s permission and the regulator can always force Gazprom Germania to sell German stored gas to Germans.

Nor does seizing this magically solve the problem of lack of gas. The Germans either abide by Russian rules for gas, or pipelines coming in from Russia remain empty.

This was a boneheaded move. The Russians can now seize a comparable German asset in Russia to recompense Gazprom; say a VW plant, a real asset that can continue to produce real things while the Germans are left with old laptops, empty pipes, a salt cavern and unheated offices in Berlin.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#262

Post by johannes1234321 »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #173
johannes1234321 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As we're not talking about small cuts of leaves but some highly industrialized component it is not so easy as counting leaves and mixing them together. You can certainly analyse the flavors, but that won't tell you much on the production process for creating this with all the artificial components. However that could creates some creativity in place and create similar, but different (better? Worse? Who knows) product…

Why would you even want to copy Coca-Cola's "super secret syrup" when we already have in Europe several local Cola drinks that are better, and sometimes even healthier? Fanta is now nothing special either, just a sugary fizzy drink with orange flavoring that can be done better by other local companies. Coca Cola is just a branding and marketing juggernaut at this point, but their drinks themselves are easily replacea…

That's orthogonal to the discussion. Fact is that local branches can survive with some form of pivot if their owner can deliver a core component for the product.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#263

Post by cf141q5325 »

foepys wrote: post #239
cf141q5325 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read a great reader comment on the topic (also in German so try DeepL) https://blog.fefe.de/?ts=9cb54d35 Its a political push and pull about who defaults on the existing contracts on gas import, seeing as Russia wants to be payed in ruble now, while Germany would prefer the payments to be stuck on a EU bank account as a form of reparation payments to the Ukraine. To prevent this outcome, Russia in effect might be l…

The author of this blog is Fefe who is known for his strong pro-Russian bias. He told the world up until February 23rd that everybody was dumb to believe that Russia would invade. I would not believe anything Fefe says on his blog, ever. He dips into conspiracy theories time and time again and when he gets proven wrong he just says that it was meant to be "media competency training".

Its a readers comment. But either way, you not liking the author doesnt mean the summary of the situation is untrue.

In case somebody can refute the explanation (or give a better one) of the Gazprom structure and motivation, i would be happy to hear the problem with it. As i see it, despite the rambling its a short and concise explanation of who does what why.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#264

Post by TremendousJudge »

tawaypol wrote: post #253
jonhohle wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During the previous six years, it struck me as completely bizarre that there was any pushback for bringing manufacturing or energy production back locally. It doesn’t have to be nationalist, it’s just adding redundancy in case your trading partner realizes they have over powered leverage. No business wants to concede to a vendor that they are irreplaceable. Edit: Likewise, watching Germany dismantle its nuclear infra…

It's tempting to think that the governments of these states have been infiltrated by their enemies.

Hanlon's razor applies here I think. Don't attribute to "the enemy" what can be adequately explained by incompetence.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#265

Post by throwaway48375 »

johannes1234321 wrote: post #137
throwaway48375 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can't be that hard to reverse engineer a spice mixture in 2022.

As we're not talking about small cuts of leaves but some highly industrialized component it is not so easy as counting leaves and mixing them together. You can certainly analyse the flavors, but that won't tell you much on the production process for creating this with all the artificial components. However that could creates some creativity in place and create similar, but different (better? Worse? Who knows) product…

So we don't have the technology to analyze chemical components of things? I still find that hard to believe.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#266

Post by diskapital »

rfrey wrote: post #217
diskapital wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gazprom attenpted to change owners and default the company. Is that illegal? I wonder about rule of law. We talk about this as sacrosanct here in the "West". It is funny that when push comes to shove (in my perception at least), we're quick to break the rules to get the outcome we want. When say a 3rd world country does something like this in response to a "Western" multinational's actions (perhaps a controversial…

You ask a question, then immediately assume the answer and draw conclusions based on that answer. I dispute that this is just something you like to think about ("Just asking questions here...") or that you are not pushing an agenda.

I beg forgiveness if my question and thoughts on the matter are somehow perceived as an agenda. I haven't studied the Gazprom case carefully, but after all, the title of OP's article is "Germany has seized control of Gazprom", not Germany has lawfully taken over management of Gazprom assets after a protracted court case establishing ownership and takeover processes, so am I really at fault for drawing conclusions based on that?

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#267

Post by [deleted] »

kijin wrote: post #211
cjrp wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely Germany's a big enough (and sparsely-populated enough) country that wind farms can go somewhere without complaint?

Germany is about 15% smaller than California, but with more than twice the population. Not exactly what I'd call "sparsely populated".

[deleted]

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#268

Post by agapon »

skeptikal wrote: post #261

This is Germany doing something to not be seen doing anything. Doing something for lack of a plan is usually a mistake. Everything of value of this subsidiary has (pipelines, stored gas, etc), is physically in Germany and already subject to German law. The stored gas wasn’t going anywhere without the German regulator’s permission and the regulator can always force Gazprom Germania to sell German stored gas to Germans…

Well, Gazprom changed ownership of Gazprom Germania without any approval from German government. So, apparently, it's not impossible that they would be able to do other things as well.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#269

Post by cf141q5325 »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #161
cf141q5325 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read a great reader comment on the topic (also in German so try DeepL) https://blog.fefe.de/?ts=9cb54d35 Its a political push and pull about who defaults on the existing contracts on gas import, seeing as Russia wants to be payed in ruble now, while Germany would prefer the payments to be stuck on a EU bank account as a form of reparation payments to the Ukraine. To prevent this outcome, Russia in effect might be l…

That comment is way to emotional to give it more than a few minutes of thought. It mixes facts with an unnecessary reaching commentary.

Facts and opinion are rather easy to distinguish though. Its the shortest description i could find of the structure and mechanism in play. If there is a problem with that part, pls do share.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#270

Post by danaris »

ericmay wrote: post #232
saiya-jin wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well USSR is as dead as russian soldier somewhere in muddy Ukraine. There were good reasons why it broke down, and those reasons are still present. Its plain simple - nobody sane, moral and free wants to be in pact with russia. Who remains are dictators, bullies and murderers. Thank god Trump didn't succeed in effectively disbanding Nato. Imagine what Europe would look like now if that happened (as Bolton mentioned i…

Which we know, but apparently Putin doesn't. I think in one of his writings or a public speaking engagement he said "They're (Ukrainians) Russian even if they don't know it".

I read an article recently—which I'm afraid I can't find anymore—that posited that part of what's going on is that Putin, and some of the rest of Russia, has a rather surprisingly expansive view of what it means to be "Russian", combined with the belief that if one is, by that definition, Russian, it is good and right to be part of Mother Russia.

It also pointed out that by extension, this means that anyone in Ukraine who does not believe that they are Russian (and thus does not want to be part of Russia) is either effectively insane, or some kind of seditious traitor (I don't remember the exact way that logic went in the article at this point).

I don't know to what extent what it described is true (my guess is "somewhat, but not necessarily absolutely"), but it does seem to help explain some of what's going on.

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