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Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

nytimes.com

261–270 of 314 posts

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to justify reading the book if I don't think I do want to stop smoking or drinking. It's enjoyable on multiple levels, just like gaming, commenting on HN, reading interesting articles, going for bike rides, eating good food and many other things. I understand for people who have negative consequences for something would like to stop (when they're addicted), but if the negative consequences are small compare…

I'm not going to try to persuade you (or anyone) from stopping drinking, I'm just saying that for most people it seems a bizarre oversight to not even consider it. You don't need to be so defensive.

You're coming across pretty pushy.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#262
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s an aritificially hostile take, isn’t it? Most people read “ the pandemic” as the global event that started around the beginning of 2020 and certainly that’s how this article and it’s title are using it. Even if you don’t read the article, it feels like a leap to assume that they’re suggesting that the virus itself somehow made people drink more irresponsibly or made people collectively more vulnerable to alcoh…

I'd say it's mainly that those who have been heavily advocating all of the lockdown measures throughout the pandemic have behaved more or less like there were no side effects and we should do them for the greater good (basically virtue signaling). The other isle has advocated that maybe we shouldn't cause that kind of turmoil in society just to spare a few years of lifespan of the elderly (which is a harsh take but d…

> those who have been heavily advocating all of the lockdown measures throughout the pandemic have behaved more or less like there were no side effects

That's so alien to me.

I don't know who gabs around the water cooler with you, but I've never met a person who would say that and can't imagine that many involved officials would. The exception really only being people who are known for big theatrics, and those aren't good people to measure others by for any politicized issue.

Most people I've known and most people I've seen have argued that it was a hard governance problem with no painless paths through it, but that there was convincing evidence (to them) that the side effects of issuing precautionary guidance/mandates were more bearable than the catastrophic effects of less action.

But obviously, we must be moving around and watching/reading things in very different circles.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#263

I notice that "the pandemic" is quickly found as the root cause and no analysis at all is done to identify if the response to the pandemic is to be implicated as well. I'd wager that waking up one day and discovering that one's job is not essential might be stressful. Being forbidden from going to the beaches and parks might have contributed. The stress of learned helplessness from countless bureaucratic decisions la…

That’s an aritificially hostile take, isn’t it? Most people read “ the pandemic” as the global event that started around the beginning of 2020 and certainly that’s how this article and it’s title are using it. Even if you don’t read the article, it feels like a leap to assume that they’re suggesting that the virus itself somehow made people drink more irresponsibly or made people collectively more vulnerable to alcoh…

Right. If the headline said, "Alcohol-related deaths spike when people lose their jobs" it wouldnt be a surprise. The pandemic was unique and had many complicating factors that impacted lots of groups in different ways.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#264
post #257

My older brother is an alcoholic. I suspect it's somewhat cliche to say, but when he's sober he's the nicest guy I know - almost nobody else I'd rather spend time with - and when he's drunk, he's chaos. The past few years he's been really struggling with sobriety - on and off like a roller coaster. The pandemic was an absolute nightmare for someone like him - in between jobs, trying to stay sober, trying to find the…

Tell him to try kratom if he hasn't.

Kratom is snake oil.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/consumer-health...

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#265
post #109

They should've opted for weed.

Anecdotally I know 3 adults in 3 different states who tried weed for the first time during the pandemic and all of them developed new-onset panic attacks and disassociative symptoms within less than 6 months of regular use and had to stop. Not sure if it was better than alcohol…

Weed is so much harder to dose than alcohol. And our conventions and traditions seem to have us overdosing on weed as the default.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#266

I am so glad I got married and had a kid. My wife doesn't drink - and honestly it's way less fun to drink - even have a glass of wine with a meal - when someone else isn't. Plus with my daughter I don't drink when my wife isn't around because I'm always worried something is going to come up and I'll have to drive her some place on short notice. I think if it were just me on my own I might drink more ... and I always…

I used to drink alone because I was bored. I used to drink socially because everyone, or it seemed like everyone, was doing it. Ones partners drinking habits can have a huge impact on ones own drinking habits.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#267
post #26

Right before the first lockdown I started a new high stress job and for several months our two toddlers weren't allowed to attend school. During the first few weeks we tried to make it "fun", I'd start working around 4-5AM , alternating morning and evening shifts of work / toddlers with my partner. Then colleagues started complaining "wtf this guy's playing with his kids in the park at 2PM" and I got really bad feedb…

It's a spiral as well. Drinking helps with the stress in the moment but increases anxiety so then you drink more to cope with increased stress and anxiety...

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For many other people it might only lead to reclusion and self loathing, which leads to more drinking, which leads to more shame, and so on.

I have no trouble believing that, but it feels like across a lot of domains it's currently popular to say things like, "these old ways of human interaction don't work, therefore they are bad in all cases and should be replaced with new ways" when the truth is closer to, "these old ways of human interaction don't work sometimes and we should be open to other modalities, but the old ways remain quite effective in many…

I agree, people tend to want to throw babies out with the bathwater. There is a trend of rejecting that which worked for previous generations but which also came with costs or compromises we no longer find acceptable. Rather than find ways to correct, like you say, instead we over-correct.

I do think shame as a tool is a crude one, and people can and should try do better. The trouble is shame is easy and doing better is hard. Many of us literally don't have the tools to do better. It requires higher choices, understanding interpersonal dynamics well enough to behave in un-intuitive ways, and personal sacrifice in order to coexist and connect with people who are suffering. If the average person had these abilities I don't think we'd need to have this conversation.

I don't think shame should be encouraged, but I doubt it makes sense to actively discourage it without an alternative that makes sense to people and is readily practiced. That's a hard problem.

With my kids I encourage them to think of what the other person is experiencing, think about why they'd invoke shameful words about someone or something, and generally try to reframe what they're thinking about. That alone can be helpful in thinking more constructively rather than destructively. Usually shaming something occurs out of discomfort, fear, and/or insecurity. Once you begin to recognize that addiction like alcoholism often stems from bad experiences, a lack of connection, a lack of community, etc - you begin to think of the person as someone burdened with more than most humans can handle, and recognize the necessity for support rather than your own desire to reject them or their habits.

Again, not a trivial thing, but one I believe is typically going to be more helpful than reaching for shame.

Maybe I'm wrong but at least shame indicates that people care. No reaction or concern whatsoever would probably be the worst reaction of all.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#269
post #118

I stopped drinking during the pandemic. I think for good. I wasn't drinking much. A bottle of wine or two at the weekend with my wife. Never really liked beer that much. It's hard to articulate exactly why I stopped I think there was some sort of insight into how boring and mechanical it had become, how little I was gaining from it, the drip drip negative effect it had on my body and crucially, how my drinking enable…

Yup. If you take out social pressure the "benefits" of booze are pretty low. Many people only drink because other people around them are drinking. That is not really a good reason to take a serious drug.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#270

Not surprised at all to hear this - there was a period (maybe a few months into the initial lockdown) I was regularly hearing my neighbours completely lose their shit on a regular basis. Not even the same people either - random, different people each time. WFH + high stress + forced close proximity + drunkenness is a recipe for disaster

Arguments went up in my household. Part of it was we realized there were a lot of annoying little things that forced close proximity brought to light the other part was increased irritability from drinking way more.

Once I stopped drinking the arguments went back to a normal level or maybe a little below. Not waking up hungover on a Saturday really makes the weekend nicer.

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