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Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video]

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Re: Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video]

#261

Post by justinator »

Joeboy wrote: post #232
justinator wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would actually say, "almost nothing" in movie terms means, "human scale almost nothing" all the way to perhaps, "cost of a house". We all have phones, video editing software is free, there's plenty of distribution channels. If you want to make a movie for "almost nothing", you can do so. Doesn't mean it's going to be good, or that anyone wants to see it. Is this a peculiar concept? We all work OSS every day, right?

True, to the extent that any 90 minutes of smartphone footage uploaded to youtube is technically "a movie". In order to be "a movie" in the sense that Evil Dead or Primer are movies, I would say you need a bit more than that.

I really wouldn't consider, "a budget larger than, 'x'" one of the defining traits of what, "a movie" is. That's gatekeeping.

Re: Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video]

#262

Post by Buldak »

dionidium wrote: post #248

It's not a coincidence that all the main characters featured in this video are women. The main thing the filmmakers are trying to show is that these are girl-bosses who can do anything men can do (and more) and it's so important to show that with utter, relentless completeness, that they've created characters that are magical, who don't need to overcome anything, characters who matter mostly as individuals, who have…

You're right that it's not a coincidence, but that's more a reflection of the video's author than its subject matter. I agree that the depictions of female characters in question are shallow and uninteresting, but I wonder what you're watching if you think recent blockbuster movies with male leads are much better.

Re: Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video]

#263

Post by zarkov99 »

999900000999 wrote: post #39

What a great video! On Star Wars in particular, in the original trilogy, it's about coming from nothing, and overcoming your challenges. Luke fails, he makes numerous mistakes throughout the series. Ray never makes any mistakes, in fact in Episode 9 she clearly kills Chewbacca, but 30 seconds later they backtrack that decision. The new Star Wars movies are absolutely god awful, except for Episode 8. I liked it for a…

Start Wars, at least episode III, meaning the first one, is clearly structured around the hero's journey, a story archetype that has been around since time immemorial, in every culture on earth. A story that old and enduring must resonate deeply with something deep and true about the human condition and a talented director cannot help but be successful by retelling it skillfully. Many modern movies eschew any such ballast . Instead the weapons of choice are technical prowess, amygdala hacking and the parroting of the ideological fad of the day. Needless to say nothing inspiring comes out of these efforts and in a generation no one will watch these things.

Re: Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video]

#264

Post by dionidium »

dragontamer wrote: post #259
dionidium wrote: post #248

It's not a coincidence that all the main characters featured in this video are women. The main thing the filmmakers are trying to show is that these are girl-bosses who can do anything men can do (and more) and it's so important to show that with utter, relentless completeness, that they've created characters that are magical, who don't need to overcome anything, characters who matter mostly as individuals, who have…

I don't think gender has anything to do with it though. > it's so important to show that with utter, relentless completeness, that they've created characters that are magical, who don't need to overcome anything, characters who matter mostly as individuals, who have no duties or responsibilities to anyone else (most certainly not to any men). They're just total kick-ass take-no-prisoners empowered women. But what you…

I upvoted both you and Buldak because I'm certain there's something to what you're saying. Few things are monocausal or completely explained by one factor. And surely these modern filmmaking tropes feedback on themselves and reinforce prevailing styles. Mine isn't any kind of grand unifying theory. I just think it's a factor.

Re: Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video]

#265

Post by RobertMiller »

Buldak wrote: post #262
dionidium wrote: post #248

It's not a coincidence that all the main characters featured in this video are women. The main thing the filmmakers are trying to show is that these are girl-bosses who can do anything men can do (and more) and it's so important to show that with utter, relentless completeness, that they've created characters that are magical, who don't need to overcome anything, characters who matter mostly as individuals, who have…

You're right that it's not a coincidence, but that's more a reflection of the video's author than its subject matter. I agree that the depictions of female characters in question are shallow and uninteresting, but I wonder what you're watching if you think recent blockbuster movies with male leads are much better.

Classic action movies of the 80s often had very flat good-at-everything male heroes. What weaknesses does John McClain ever show in Die Hard? Vulnerability to walking barefoot on broken glass I guess, not much.

There are obviously exceptions, but generally action movies don't have very interesting characters.

Re: Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video]

#266

Post by dionidium »

RobertMiller wrote: post #265
Buldak wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right that it's not a coincidence, but that's more a reflection of the video's author than its subject matter. I agree that the depictions of female characters in question are shallow and uninteresting, but I wonder what you're watching if you think recent blockbuster movies with male leads are much better.

Classic action movies of the 80s often had very flat good-at-everything male heroes. What weaknesses does John McClain ever show in Die Hard? Vulnerability to walking barefoot on broken glass I guess, not much. There are obviously exceptions, but generally action movies don't have very interesting characters.

He's presented as a sad-sack alcoholic at the start of the movie!

Re: Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video]

#267

Post by aaron695 »

Joeboy wrote: post #48

I think I agree with the thrust of the video. My caveats would be: 1) When anybody dunks on "modern movies", they mean "modern movies with $>100m marketing budgets". Which is actually a small minority of modern movies. 2) The messaging has changed, but movies have always had terrible messaging in them. Edit: Maybe it's a bad idea to say this out loud, but when you get protagonists who are "just born preternaturally a…

No post body was provided.

Re: Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video]

#269

Post by Joeboy »

justinator wrote: post #261
Joeboy wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, to the extent that any 90 minutes of smartphone footage uploaded to youtube is technically "a movie". In order to be "a movie" in the sense that Evil Dead or Primer are movies, I would say you need a bit more than that.

I really wouldn't consider, "a budget larger than, 'x'" one of the defining traits of what, "a movie" is. That's gatekeeping.

I would also vigorously oppose such a view.

Re: Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video]

#270

Post by spywaregorilla »

dionidium wrote: post #248

It's not a coincidence that all the main characters featured in this video are women. The main thing the filmmakers are trying to show is that these are girl-bosses who can do anything men can do (and more) and it's so important to show that with utter, relentless completeness, that they've created characters that are magical, who don't need to overcome anything, characters who matter mostly as individuals, who have…

I think captain marvel is an interesting one on this note. It is a problem in recent films that writers want to overpower women to make things fair, and they do a disservice to the women by doing so.

Captain marvel seems to address this directly and in a more mature way. Her character does start weak. She is shown losing repeated to her officer in physical fights and feeling inferior. Later she becomes the most powerful person the MCU has ever seen and the officer turns out to be evil.

The climax of captain marvel's character arc in her movie is him trying to bait her into fighting him on fair, unpowered terms and she basically says fuck you and blasts him with a laser. It's not explicitly a gender thing, but making a firm statement that she isn't intrinsically better than the guy without her powers but that she won't be defined by those metrics. It felt like a much better way to handle this message.

Being explicit that other people's (traditional male) competencies don't get to define your self worth.

It's a flip on the "Let's Fight Like Gentlemen" movie trope and frankly I thought it was a solid message which helped avoid this narrative pitfall even though captain marvel herself is by far the most overpowered female example of late.

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