Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

newyorker.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 411 posts

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#261

Post by epakai »

erichocean wrote: post #237
mcphage wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if Ukraine should possibly get any say in the matter.

Of course, Ukraine can talk all they want (and they are). At some point, though, boots on the ground matter more than words. The Russians have evidently reached that point. As best I can tell, this conflict was entirely, completely, utterly avoidable simply by Ukraine following the terms of the Minsk agreements[0], voted on unanimously by the UN (including Ukraine and Russia). Why Ukraine chose not to live up to thei…

Weird classification of Ukraine not living up to the agreement therefore mainly responsible. There were accusations of cease-fire violation from both sides. This is also the conflict that brings us the phrase "Little Green Men", and later the destruction of flight MH-17. Russia has continually played a major part in escalating this conflict just has been done recently where they have gone to full-scale invasion.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#262

Post by postingawayonhn »

thriftwy wrote: post #28
hutzlibu wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Putin has fucking nukes, is he seriously afraid of being invaded himself?" He is afraid of insignificance. Once there was a great RUS empire, now there isn't. Many russians feel sad about that. I don't to be honest, because those great empires, whether from the tsar or sowjets, were mainly known for slave conditions for most people.

After the arguable win in the Cold War, the winning party has failed to offer the better peace to Russia. Just compare the fate of Japan in 1944 vs. 1954 and Russia in 1989 vs. Russia in 1999. It has caused an enormous traumatic syndrome in the russian society.

Russia could be a great friend of the west if it wanted and would be very helpful in countering China's influence. Unfortunately the Russian leadership is more interested in enriching themselves and trying to revive the the USSR.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#263

Post by bushin »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #230
Grustaf wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're fighting because they are being attacked, and because Slavs are courageous and stubborn. But the West are not telling them to give up, to save civilian lives. Instead they encourage them to keep fighting, delaying the inevitable. I don't know by how many days that will prolong the war, but it's reckless.

Imagine Biden telling Ukraine to lay down arms and capitulate to the Russian occupation, and we thought Trump acted like the Manchurian candidate ! I really can’t see into your mind, how is Putin not the reckless one here? He’s going on a military adventure that has kept the Russian stock market closed for a week.

No need to imagine: https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/26/europe/ukraine-zelensky-e...

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#264

Post by credit_guy »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #229
david38 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Invading Russia would be pushing the bear into a tight corner. This is setting up camp in another ecosystem where the bear isn’t supposed to be at all, has no claim.

How close would you let your enemy put a knife to your throat before stopping them? The best way to avoid a knife fight is for two people to stay far apart. If you keep getting closer to someone with a knife, you shouldn't be surprised when you get stabbed.

But Russia has thousands of nukes, and that's not a secret. Russia knows that nobody would dare attack them, ever. And the rest of the world knows that too.

The whole thing about Russia feeling "threatened" is just total BS. Putin just knows that in this day and age you need to play the victim, and lots of people instinctively would take your side. It doesn't matter how absurd the claim is.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#265

Post by offbeatrock »

throwaways85989 wrote: post #161
warner_of_doom wrote: post #38

Seeing this play out in the media reminds me of the Iraq War hysteria in 2003. Completely one-sided coverage, classic war-time propaganda (ghost of kiev), banning Russian arts and paralympians, etc. I've lost all faith in the media. Period. You may think that there is an absolute answer to this situation, but there isn't. I recommend that you study commentators and scholars such as: John Mearsheimer, Zbigniew Brezins…

I despise this western-centric view- were only the people in the west are real people, that can make decisions for themselves, and the rest is just pawns for playing a funny great board game. The idea that even a new-born nation, could walk out of the board game and do its own thing is so outrageous to the players, it is not even considered. Well, ukraine just tried that. Its a sovereign nation, and it wanted nothing…

actually Mearsheimer's view is the opposite of western centric.

It says that there are other big players in the world other than the US that will behave following the exact same set of game theory laws.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#266

Post by KptMarchewa »

Grustaf wrote: post #177
BitwiseFool wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also surprised at just how many of my friends have turned from dovish "can't we all just get along" types into rabid "Russia Delenda Est" types who think that anyone who believes that even a modicum of this is perhaps America's fault is committing treason. For what it's worth, what Russia is doing is wrong. But I do absolutely understand Mearsheimer's perspective that this is basically a Cuban Missile Crisis 2.0…

The propaganda onslaught is unparalleled. Ukraine is painted as heaven on Earth, a beacon of democracy. McFaul even suggested that Putin essentially "hated Ukraine because it was free". In reality Ukraine is even more corrupt than Russia, their economy is in terrible shape, despite having more natural resources than most, and a diligent educated population. GDP per capita is a third of Russia's, lower than Belarus! T…

Ukraine is a free country, not Russian vassal state only for 8 years, during which of has been sabotaged by Russia by the war in Donbass.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#267

Post by KptMarchewa »

warner_of_doom wrote: post #240
johnny22 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unless ukraine was actually going to attack russia (and even then really re: preemptive war), none of that makes a difference.

So, unless Cuba was actually going to use those nuclear missiles and unless Turkey was actually going to use those nuclear missiles, the US and the USSR were both wrong in their actions?

Yes.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#268

Post by KptMarchewa »

bllguo wrote: post #225
jazzyjackson wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are literally sacrificing their country and encouraging suicide. This. is. just. wrong! what on earth? Who is we? Policy that pisses Russia off I can take blame for, but Americans sacrificing Ukrainians? I really just cannot parse how you lay guilt at our feet for Ukrainians’ propensity for defending their sovereignty from invaders.

do you not understand how pissing Russia off leads to sacrificing Ukrainian lives, or are you choosing not to?

No. Letting Russia do with foreign democracies leads to war like this. Appeasing dictators doesn't work.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#269

Post by keewee7 »

warner_of_doom wrote: post #38

Seeing this play out in the media reminds me of the Iraq War hysteria in 2003. Completely one-sided coverage, classic war-time propaganda (ghost of kiev), banning Russian arts and paralympians, etc. I've lost all faith in the media. Period. You may think that there is an absolute answer to this situation, but there isn't. I recommend that you study commentators and scholars such as: John Mearsheimer, Zbigniew Brezins…

>We encouraged Zelensky to talk about acquiring nukes

This is literally Kremlin lies and talking points.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#270

Post by torstenvl »

warner_of_doom wrote: post #89
georgia_peach wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feels like the books written by the old hands are losing, badly, to the comic books and the movies, doesn't it?

Yup. We have this MCU good guys vs bad guys thing ingrained in us now. Nobody wants to talk seriously about the intricate complexities. My way or the highway. Russia bad. Ukraine good. America leader of the free world. Go to sleep. Eat. Buy. Work. Rinse. Repeat.

There is nothing complex about it. They're bombing hospitals and schools and they're doing it intentionally.
Post reply on HN