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Why Vladimir Putin and his entourage want war

economist.com

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Re: Why Vladimir Putin and his entourage want war

#261

Post by AutumnCurtain »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #260
AutumnCurtain wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you rethought these comments at all, Ivan?

Yes. They remain valid as a way of thought for many Russians before the war and should be kept for history. Hardly anyone in Russia was considering real war as a possibility, so when Putin made the orders it came as a deep shock. Before the recognition of separatist territories, his strategy seemed at least rational if wrong. He could be understood, even if his actions were not approved. Not anymore. I do not know wh…

Thank you very much for the perspective, I think people all around the world are shocked at his brazenness and even people who were "right" about his plans are horrified to be so.

Re: Why Vladimir Putin and his entourage want war

#262

Post by jacquesm »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #260
AutumnCurtain wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you rethought these comments at all, Ivan?

Yes. They remain valid as a way of thought for many Russians before the war and should be kept for history. Hardly anyone in Russia was considering real war as a possibility, so when Putin made the orders it came as a deep shock. Before the recognition of separatist territories, his strategy seemed at least rational if wrong. He could be understood, even if his actions were not approved. Not anymore. I do not know wh…

Thank you for coming back and adding this. Indeed, it is scary as shit, and because now any kind of trust in whatever Russia says or claims is lost there is absolutely no way to contain this. Russia could join peace negotiations and it wouldn't amount to anything. This does not have a happy ending I'm afraid.

Best of luck. We'll probably all need it.

Re: Why Vladimir Putin and his entourage want war

#263

Post by jacquesm »

laacz wrote: post #245
ivan_gammel wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it is a bit more nuanced. In 1990s there was a surge in various nationalist movements in ex-USSR republics trying to establish national identity on ethnic grounds. In some countries this resulted in armed conflicts with ethnic cleansings. In others minorities were discriminated or pushed to severe their historical and cultural ties. “Alien” passports in Latvia and restrictions on teaching of Russian language in…

I am a firm believer in hat it was NEVER about protecting russians abroad. I'm from Latvia and might be biased, but evidence points that they have other reasons behind their continuous aggression.

Spot on. My heart is with you (have family in Latvia).

Re: Why Vladimir Putin and his entourage want war

#264

Post by vernon99 »

jaybrendansmith wrote: post #249
vernon99 wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

#1 is simply and absolutely not true. See Buharest summit of 2008, where NATO explicitly welcomed Georgia and Ukraine aspirations to join. Current state of affairs in both countries is a direct result of that. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Bucharest_summit

"The Alliance did not offer a Membership Action Plan to Georgia or Ukraine, largely due to the opposition of Germany and France." ... "Russian President Putin was pleased about the alliance deciding not to invite Georgia and Ukraine to the Membership Action Plan at least for the time being."

“agreeing that "these countries will become members of NATO"”

Re: Why Vladimir Putin and his entourage want war

#266

Post by throw0101a »

irthomasthomas wrote: post #115
throw0101a wrote: post #13

See also Anne Applebaum: > Putin is preparing to invade Ukraine again—or pretending he will invade Ukraine again—for the same reason. He wants to destabilize Ukraine, frighten Ukraine. He wants Ukrainian democracy to fail. He wants the Ukrainian economy to collapse. He wants foreign investors to flee. He wants his neighbors—in Belarus, Kazakhstan, even Poland and Hungary—to doubt whether democracy will ever be viable…

Russia has been holding the same military drills for over a decade without triggering this panic. [0] Also, calling Ukraine a democracy is a bit of a stretch. They shut down 3 tv stations critical of the government, and imprisoned a political rival. I am sure there are people here that would love to shutdown RT, but we don't do that in a democracy. [0] 2020: Russian Military Exercises Near Ukraine. 100 to 120 thousan…

> Russia has been holding the same military drills for over a decade without triggering this panic. [0]

This post hasn't aged well. :)

Re: Why Vladimir Putin and his entourage want war

#267

Post by jacquesm »

elzbardico wrote: post #244
dragonwriter wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't believe this kindergarten geopolitics they fed your people to ensure you'll be happy to send kids to die to enrich the military industrial complex This is kind of weird given that NATO propaganda right now is justifying the absence of intervention—making the case that despite the illegality of current Russian action and the potential expanded invasion, Ukraine might get aid but essentially must be written off…

Of course, the pressure come from the US, which has proven in the last decades to resort to this kind of propaganda blitz before they embark in another unjustified military adventure. This is another "OMG!!!! WMDs in Iraq". And as always the American media does its part in manufacturing consent for a war that nobody needs now. Make no mistake, the US government is the aggressor here.

This comment did not age well.
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