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Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

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Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#261

Post by malermeister »

tonfreed wrote: post #117
itslennysfault wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeeeeeah, I don't know about that. Anyone with their truck there risks forfeiting the asset that was used in commission of a crime. AKA their livelihood and likely most expensive asset. There is certainly not a bottomless pit of people wishing to do that.

Sounds a little silly to confiscate the assets of the people bringing the food to your table. That and the towies in the area are refusing to move any of the trucks. Trudeau just looks weak at this point, and for a prime minister that got in because of his good looks and his dad's popularity it's not a good omen.

90% of truckers are vaccinated. [0]

This isn't "truckers" protesting, this is the radical fringe.

[0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/01/28/canada-truck...

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#262

Post by CogitoCogito »

x3n0ph3n3 wrote: post #224
pas wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> oppose vax mandates why? could you explain your stande on other mandates/requirements and what's this vax mandate does that makes it so different? (eg. you need a passport/visa-like thing to enter, you need clothes, if you arrive by car that needs papers and a valid safety profile, you need to use the seatbelt, and so on)

All government mandates are enforced at the barrel of a gun.

> All government mandates are enforced at the barrel of a gun.

So is enforcement of contracts between private parties. Are you against private property as well?

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#263

Post by rafale »

jsjsbdkj wrote: post #192
vorpalhex wrote: post #8

> The Emergencies Act is the modern-day replacement to the War Measures Act. It allows the federal government to force companies to provide services, it can require public protests to end, and limit mobility rights by preventing people from moving to designating areas. > > The act also allows for the military to be used as police, but several sources said that is not under active consideration. Not a good look for Tr…

There's no "loss of mandate". The Canadian people are overwhelmingly vaccinated and don't mind wearing masks. 90+% of truckers are fully vaccinated. Canadians re-elected Trudeau during the pandemic. The issue is that Ottawa Police were afraid of media backlash if they did any crowd control for the initial "protest" weekend. This allowed the occupiers to move in heavy machinery as barricades. When the weekend ended an…

You lost me at "closer to an insurrection".

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#264

Post by skrbjc »

ff317 wrote: post #230
colechristensen wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't look like , it is authoritarian response to something which should be protected. Using government power intended for things like war to suppress a protest is ridiculous, if this is what being "liberal" is about, I'm out. I hope the response is a protest escalation. Not my country, not my protest, but I know who I'm rooting for. Contrast this to what was happening in Minneapolis a couple of summers ago... p…

Serious question though, which applies to both the Canadian truckers case and the Minneapolis example above - does a right to protest an issue also include a right to inflict economic harm (on broader society, in poorly-targeted fashion) in order to raise awareness? Is the amount of economic harm (say, %GDP of the town, region, or country) or how broadly it's targeted ("random retail stores"? "Anything that relies on…

All protests cause economic harm. How many businesses were closed and looted during the protests for BLM?

What is the correct amount of economic harm in your view? What are the terms under which a protest should be allowed by a government?

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#265

Post by defaultname »

refurb wrote: post #221
WesternWind wrote: post #191

Some facts (and a few polls) suggest that the Trucker convoy isn't a broadly popular movement of truckers as much as a well funded tiny minority without broad support even from truckers. First 90% of Canadian truckers are vaccinated. https://newrepublic.com/article/165341/fox-news-vaccine-cana... Evidence suggests that funding for this protest is in large part foreign (IE not from canada) and that most canadian donat…

I’m not sure any of those things matter? - Plenty of vaccinated people against vaccine mandates and other restrictions. Doctors are allowed to be Covid positive and treat patients in BC and QC. But apparently truckers who are Covid negative are a problem? - Foreign money influence is a problem, sure, but businesses? They can’t support a protest? - Last poll I saw (Ipsos) said 1 out of 3 Canadians support the protest.…

"Last poll I saw (Ipsos) said 1 out of 3 Canadians support the protest"

That grossly misrepresented poll asked only if respondents sympathize with their cause. If you agree that mandates need to go. Note that when asked directly, 60-70% of Canada are over mandates, and just being asked to show sympathy already lost 50% of those people.

But this doesn't mean that those people support this protest. Indeed, in subsequent polls, over 60% of the country wants the protesters jailed.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#266

Post by skrbjc »

kennywinker wrote: post #213
colechristensen wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't look like , it is authoritarian response to something which should be protected. Using government power intended for things like war to suppress a protest is ridiculous, if this is what being "liberal" is about, I'm out. I hope the response is a protest escalation. Not my country, not my protest, but I know who I'm rooting for. Contrast this to what was happening in Minneapolis a couple of summers ago... p…

I hope you’re just as outraged by the removal of first nations protesters blockading pipelines last year - because those were more peaceful than the trucker stuff and they were crushed with pretty extreme force by the rcmp

Are you as outraged by this as that?

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#267

Post by shakezula »

tonfreed wrote: post #240
refurb wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure any of those things matter? - Plenty of vaccinated people against vaccine mandates and other restrictions. Doctors are allowed to be Covid positive and treat patients in BC and QC. But apparently truckers who are Covid negative are a problem? - Foreign money influence is a problem, sure, but businesses? They can’t support a protest? - Last poll I saw (Ipsos) said 1 out of 3 Canadians support the protest.…

1 out of 3 colonists supported the American revolution. It's not wise to stomp on such a large and vocal portion of your population.

Did you have the same attitude towards the summer 2020 protests in the US?

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#268

Post by fishidns »

colechristensen wrote: post #101
barbazoo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What should be done differently? In Alberta restrictions have been lifted but the occupation of the border still hasn't ended.

Put the measures being protested directly up for a vote by the Canadian legislature (so they're not just executive actions), if they're not struck down the government should resign / do a no confidence vote, let people elect a new government. Let the people have their voice. If protests continue take actions that let them protest but reduce their ability to be disruptive. With the current dynamics of the disease thou…

You can't do that because 5000 people have blocked essential roads with big trucks. That's tyranny man.

Just because you support the end of restrictions doesn't mean you should support people getting what they want through illegal methods. This is supposed to be a democracy.

Canada just had an election, and the people pro-vaccine and pro-mandates were elected.

Yes, durect democracy and being allowed to all vote on all issues is a nice dream, but for now the system is a representative democracy. And it's not okay to force things through keeping people hostage.

Would you be similarly supportive if 5000 people blocked essential infrastructure with big trucks everytime they want something?

In my opinion, if we were to see a really large gathering, of the kind that BLM saw, then if say, ok, it does seem there's a lot of people who really care about this so maybe have a direct referendum, but this one hasn't met the threshold in my opinion.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#269

Post by jsjsbdkj »

busymom0 wrote: post #55
Jackim wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Ottawa and I assure you that this protest is not peaceful. I've had friends physically assaulted, spit on, and yelled at just for wearing a mask into a business. Not to mention the constant honking that was reaching levels above 100db inside people's homes. Homeless shelters were raided by protestors, businesses have been forced to close due to threats, and people are afraid to leave their homes.

I and my friends have been there for 3 weekends and haven't seen any of that. > Homeless shelters were raided by protestors, businesses have been forced to close due to threats, and people are afraid to leave their homes. This is hilariously inaccurate. Everyone's bringing food TO the truckers and there's so much food there that truckers are refusing to take more. Amazingly, we live in 2022 where everyone has a phone…

The protestors on the first weekend going to the Shepherds of Good Hope homeless shelter and taking food (and being violent with staff) was extremely well documented.

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/ottawa-homeless-shelter-receives-7...

You mean surveillance footage like this, of a protestor trying to lock the doors to an apartmnent building and start a fire?

https://globalnews.ca/news/8600592/trucker-convoy-police-inv...

The cops have barely done anything and they've acknowledged there is violence and lawlessness:

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/ottawa-police-report-a-night-of-di...

Lots more videos here:

https://www.instagram.com/ottawaconvoyreport/

I literally heard honking today. The only reason there is less honking is because there is a legal injuction and truckers who honk can now be sued civilly. But they still persist.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#270

Post by salawat »

PeterisP wrote: post #146
ameminator wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, how is someone supposed to protest? I mean, I see clear differences between going up to someone's home or into someone's workplace and making noise in the street. Any protest is almost guaranteed to inconvenience someone, unless you want to limit a "protester" to yelling in their own home. So what would you suggest is the line?

You get to make your point in a protest, but the society has the right - and should have the practical ability - to ignore your protest if they wish to do so. You get to make your point heard to anyone who cares - both to the government and other people - but they don't have to care. If it turns out that general public does not want to hear and support your protest, then you simply wait until elections, and either ge…

>You get to make your point in a protest, but the society has the right - and should have the practical ability - to ignore your protest if they wish to do so.

I dare say, if you've got things escalating to the point where people from all over your country plop themselves on the Federal government's front door .. do you not realize how much that actually takes?

If one is so eager to dismiss the minority, then pray tell, how does anyone propose getting any change done? Further, why are you blaming the protesters for making your life more inconvenient when the only person who has been harmed already is...wait for it...them?

Because until that road got blocked, nobody gave a care 1.

That is successful protest. That is the consequence of Statecraft failure.

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