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Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

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Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#261

Post by civilized »

artemonster wrote: post #248
civilized wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I don't believe what you believe. I think you have an overly general moral rule that you think is necessary for consistency, but it's not really, and it's just your personal belief. Your belief implies it is improper to use statistics to describe morally salient human behavior in any way, unless the conclusion is that there is no variation. I think that's silly and intellectually impoverishing. Groups have diff…

I personally dont require that consistency, I was merely asking WHY there is a difference in treatment of the same method (making generalized statements about group behaviour) when applied to different qualifiers. And yes, just as you've said, maintaining that consistency does imply that you suddenly can't use any statistics at all. Point taken on "prosecutor attitude", sorry about that. riding "moral high horse" got…

It sounds like you don't believe what you just said you did? I'm genuinely asking what you believe, as opposed to what you assert for the sake of argument.

For me, it's not an easy topic but I would say when negative generalizations escalate to exclusion and dehumanization, that's probably where to draw the line.

I know some people with Audis and I don't think worse of them or anything like that. It's just a funny thing that's hard to ignore after a while on the road.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#262

Post by rascul »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #25

I'm a software engineer who does his own plumbing and his own electrical. Example projects: * rewire 1920's three story house with romex instead of knob & tube * install 6.6kW ground mount PV arrays and connect to grid * replumb two kitchens and three bathrooms * install water softener (all copper, dozens of required brazed joints) I love doing that stuff (carpentry and cabinet building too). But ... a couple of time…

> Despite loving the work itself, I would never, ever want to do this for other people, even for good income.

This is pretty much how I feel about IT work nowadays. I've done it in the past, nowadays I repair rental houses.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#263

Post by wbl »

bmitc wrote: post #225
nkozyra wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's something so insidiously, backhandedly condescending about tech workers pining for the simplicity of an honest day's job that drives me nuts. Yes, there are almost always jobs with less strenuous requirements on time, fewer requirements and late nights. But the average tech worker has a pretty good gig. And if they don't they can go down the street in 2022 and get one. Trades scratch a similar itch to develop…

> Trades scratch a similar itch to development in some ways - you're working with a set of tools I'd say the major difference is that in the trades, the tools actually work.

Having just had fun with replacing a bathroom door knob that involved far more power tools than expected I'm not sure I can agree.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#264

Post by jeffrallen »

nilkn wrote: post #208

In the FIRE community, this kind of topic often comes up. Are there any enjoyable full-time or part-time jobs to do in semi-retirement? Invariably, the conclusion is that low-wage or part-time jobs almost always come with enough baggage to outweigh any perceived benefits as a semi-retirement gig. A job is a job -- anything that produces a consistent income is going to involve dealing with unreasonable people or expec…

I worked as a volunteer in a food pantry's warehouse for a while when I was "early retired", and it was great. Satisfying real work with real outcomes that were visible ("pallet is restacked", check!), in the service of a mission I believed in.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#265

Post by dv35z »

praptak wrote: post #38

My constant daydream is machining. So far I learned the basics of FreeCAD, watched a shitton of machining videos on YouTube and researched some lathes and mills. Unfortunately it is a hobby that requires lots of space to keep the machines and tools.

You ought to see if there is a makerspace/hackerspace in your area. I just joined one - it's got a full woodshop, machine shop, CNC router, welding, laser cutter, 3d printers, even an auto bay - so you could work on your car. They do regular classes on the tools. It's been fun coming up with fun ideas and seeing how quickly I can "MVP" them. Most recent project was making an old-timey saloon sign for a friend's birthday. Found some fun pictures on Google Images, traced them as vector shapes, and etched / cut the design into some scrap wood using the CNC laser. It was a lot of fun. Just wandering around the tools watching people - you can come up with new little project ideas. The other great thing is meeting all the tool experts, they're always willing to help out & show some tips.

To those looking to increase your ability to express yourself - this is a very satisfying interest. Making besutiful & helpful stuff for the people in your life is quite interesting ... People tell you their life dreams - when you work on those projects, there is a lot of learning & fun.

And for anyone who's interested in this stuff, a question- what is considered the "GitHub" of makerspace projects, plans, 3d models, stock designs etc? I'm looking for that open-source feel good sharing vibe... "Is there an HN for that"?

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#266

Post by elorant »

bmitc wrote: post #225
nkozyra wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's something so insidiously, backhandedly condescending about tech workers pining for the simplicity of an honest day's job that drives me nuts. Yes, there are almost always jobs with less strenuous requirements on time, fewer requirements and late nights. But the average tech worker has a pretty good gig. And if they don't they can go down the street in 2022 and get one. Trades scratch a similar itch to develop…

> Trades scratch a similar itch to development in some ways - you're working with a set of tools I'd say the major difference is that in the trades, the tools actually work.

Sure, and they can also chop your hand off or otherwise seriously harm you.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#267

Post by Trasmatta »

rowanajmarshall wrote: post #260

For me it's becoming a barista. Something social, where I'm not sitting all day. Something with an artisanal bend to it, that can be appreciated by more people than a handful of your coworkers.

Out of curiosity, have you worked a service job in the past? If not, you might underestimating how much of an absolute nightmare they can be.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#268

Post by maccard »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #123
jedberg wrote: post #64

This last summer/fall really put things in perspective for me. We did a major outdoor renovation at our house, which involved landscapers, plumbers, electricians, and carpenters. Every day these guys would show up at 8am and long sleeves and jeans and hard hats, work super hard, pee in a port-a-potty, and be exhausted by the end of the day. They worked out in the 100 degree heat as well as the rain as the job got nea…

Your contractor, on the other hand, may well have got a few rounds of golf in during the day time. A neighbor owns a painting company. He goes around the various job sites in the morning, sees that everyone has their marching orders for the day, returns in the afternoon to check in on the progress. In between the morning and afternoon though? He does what he pleases. I believe he started the company with a buddy, the…

I can own a software company and go play golf every afternoon while my employees write the code.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#269

Post by mejakethomas »

nkozyra wrote: post #166
jedberg wrote: post #64

This last summer/fall really put things in perspective for me. We did a major outdoor renovation at our house, which involved landscapers, plumbers, electricians, and carpenters. Every day these guys would show up at 8am and long sleeves and jeans and hard hats, work super hard, pee in a port-a-potty, and be exhausted by the end of the day. They worked out in the 100 degree heat as well as the rain as the job got nea…

There's something so insidiously, backhandedly condescending about tech workers pining for the simplicity of an honest day's job that drives me nuts. Yes, there are almost always jobs with less strenuous requirements on time, fewer requirements and late nights. But the average tech worker has a pretty good gig. And if they don't they can go down the street in 2022 and get one. Trades scratch a similar itch to develop…

Ah yes, the common misconception that trades are simplistic!

Most trades (!including plumbing!) have VASTLY more stringent requirements than tech, are often more mentally stimulating, and yes, quite rewarding.

Disclaimer: I've worked in software for ~9 years and worked in trades before that. ASE master certified auto technician, father is a master electrician, uncles are contractors. I'll probably become a plumber.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#270

Post by pessimizer »

banana_maker wrote: post #256
dsego wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I recognize that I have the privilege of not sacrificing my body and health for my income Oh, sitting in a chair in front a screen for hours on end does wonders for the body. It's still early, you'll appreciate it in ~10 years.

You and the other commenter have got to be joking. My point was that office-work is far away preferable to daily physical labor. I’ll take sitting over throwing out my back, blowing out my knees and having constant pain. Not to mention the hazards of working with chemicals or industrial equipment or electricity, and so on. Of course there are options that I use like exercising and standing desks. My point was that th…

> My point was that office-work is far away preferable to daily physical labor.

It's not. I've never been fitter than when I was doing physical work. The problem was the pay and the powerlessness at the workplace (e.g. awful hours with no notice, management compromises on safety, the expectation that you'll keep silent when management cuts corners or cheats the clients/customers, etc.)

The reason I stopped doing physical work is because physical workers are disrespected by the world, and your bosses would rather shut down and leave the industry than to pay you a dollar more. After I decided I would never work with my hands again, jobs paid a lot more. The less you actually do, the more holy you get. One day I'll just sit in the lotus position, floating two inches above my prayer mat, giving cryptic pronouncements about what other people should be doing. By then, I'll have billions.

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