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Peloton – A call for action [pdf]

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Re: Peloton – A call for action [pdf]

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Treadmills are a uniquely obtrusive, pointless, and expensive product

You've never owned, or likely even used, a really good one. I don't know if Peleton makes good ones, but Precor certainly does. That said, it was weird of Peleton to overpay for a company that makes expensive fitness equipment purchased largely by gyms, who probably aren't purchasing much of anything these days.

What makes a good treadmill good?

Genuinely curious as I've (in my limited experience) only ever seen them intermittently used a handful of times and then forgotten about. My dad used to buy up used ones for a pittance for their motors which he used for hobby projects, and most of the time they looked unused except for some dust or dry rotting.

Re: Peloton – A call for action [pdf]

#262
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their apparel brand is a joke. It’s run by Foley’s wife. Unless I messed something, what experience or qualification does she have in apparel? Never mind the fact that I’ve maybe seen only 3 people in the real world wearing anything that is Peloton branded (no, the free Century t-shirt doesn’t count). Personally, I find their apparel to be a little loud and obnoxious, but that’s just me. As a consumer, I don’t see wh…

The HN crowd is always quick to point out that Peloton has no moat - its just a screen on a bike. Creating a lifestyle brand (ala in person fitness brands like Soulcycle or Barrys) is a way to address that moat, and apparel is a core part of that. Whether or not they were successful is an execution issue.

How would having a lifestyle brand create a moat? How would you define "moat"?

(Genuine questions, I have no position on the issue and no real knowledge in the area)

Re: Peloton – A call for action [pdf]

#263
post #191

The fact is. Not every company can be a $12B company. Peloton might be a super successful $1B company, who slowly tries to creep into new areas for growth. And it sounds like Blackwell understand this, and instead of pushing for Peloton to focus internally on its product and get rid of the extra fat, they want a fast sale to a not-really-smart company. So they can at least get some ROI People talk about monthly fees…

I don't think the "building their own factories" is as cut and dry. Here in Australia, many of these small to medium sized businesses do their own manufacturing in house. I believe it depends on margin and volume.

The examples I'm referring to are Rode Microphones, Cochlear hearing aids, and ResMed CPAP machines, are all manufactured in Australia (though I'm not sure all of their world-wide manufacturing happens here, they could have other factories).

Would love to get the feedback from people who may have any idea in where and why it sometimes make sense to do your own manufacturing.

My issue with Peleton has always been that the cost for a stationary bike is more than the cost of my road bike, and about the same prices as my mountain bike. From my user name, you may be able to tell... I ride, but how many people want to spend the kind of money Peleton is charging to ride indoors?

They got the early adopters who were willing to pay the price, but they may have run out of consumers. I know of a few people who LOVE their Peleton, I don't know of anybody who doesn't have one that wants one.

Re: Peloton – A call for action [pdf]

#264
post #191

The fact is. Not every company can be a $12B company. Peloton might be a super successful $1B company, who slowly tries to creep into new areas for growth. And it sounds like Blackwell understand this, and instead of pushing for Peloton to focus internally on its product and get rid of the extra fat, they want a fast sale to a not-really-smart company. So they can at least get some ROI People talk about monthly fees…

I don't think the "building their own factories" is as cut and dry. Here in Australia, many of these small to medium sized businesses do their own manufacturing in house. I believe it depends on margin and volume. The examples I'm referring to are Rode Microphones, Cochlear hearing aids, and ResMed CPAP machines, are all manufactured in Australia (though I'm not sure all of their world-wide manufacturing happens here…

> I know of a few people who LOVE their Peleton, I don't know of anybody who doesn't have one that wants one.

Bingo. The growth opportunities at this price point seem to be close to zero. Move the price point by a factor of 5, and maybe (maybe) that changes.

Meanwhile, you can pry my Racermate Computrainer from my cold, dead hands :)

Re: Peloton – A call for action [pdf]

#265
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their apparel brand is a joke. It’s run by Foley’s wife. Unless I messed something, what experience or qualification does she have in apparel? Never mind the fact that I’ve maybe seen only 3 people in the real world wearing anything that is Peloton branded (no, the free Century t-shirt doesn’t count). Personally, I find their apparel to be a little loud and obnoxious, but that’s just me. As a consumer, I don’t see wh…

The HN crowd is always quick to point out that Peloton has no moat - its just a screen on a bike. Creating a lifestyle brand (ala in person fitness brands like Soulcycle or Barrys) is a way to address that moat, and apparel is a core part of that. Whether or not they were successful is an execution issue.

IIUC, the classes/instructors are the moat.

Re: Peloton – A call for action [pdf]

#266
post #247
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The factory part aside, white glove delivery is not unheard of in premium offerings of various items. It makes perfect sense to have white glove treatment for the delivery of Peloton devices, and you can almost always guarantee the customer interaction is better when your employees are in-house instead of contracted.

Peloton is far from the only expensive product being shipped coast to coast. You let someone else do the work for you. I'm going on a whim and guessing that a Tesla being delivered to your door, is not delivered by a full time Tesla employee And to double down on that - starting 2 days ago, Everyone receiving a Peloton will receive it from a non-employee

Peloton does not use FT employees to deliver everywhere in the US and I know for a fact that their first-party delivery is a far better experience than when you get third-party delivery.

Re: Peloton – A call for action [pdf]

#267
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not so sure why this sounds odd. All successful startup that I have seen, had a great builder and a great seller. A CFO/COO running internal operations and finance is great to have. So since he is not the builder and obviously not the CFO/COO, he could still be a very successful CEO by being the seller, who is advocating for the company on the market. Think Steve Jobs. Wasn't the CEO of Peloton not that kind of…

Steve Jobs was one of the most micromanaging CEOs I've read about. He overruled many CTO decisions during his time at Apple, both at the founding of the company and upon his return to the company years later, so I wouldn't use him as a comparable example. You'll rarely find a good CEO that isn't intimately aware of the current actions and goals of each other executive. What you're describing would be the role of a CM…

> He overruled many CTO decisions during his time at Apple

That is not micromanaging.

That's the CEO's job. Take input from whatever valuable sources you have, and decide on behalf of the entire organization.

Steve Jobs was a lot of things over the decades. But a micromanager, he was not.

Re: Peloton – A call for action [pdf]

#268
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are a realtime content company that just happens to use technology in the same way a tv station is not a theatre troupe. Did they ever try to give the impression of being a tech company?

CEO quote from the link.... > which as a CEO of a technology company

Heh, now they really convinced me that he need to be removed

Re: Peloton – A call for action [pdf]

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've never owned, or likely even used, a really good one. I don't know if Peleton makes good ones, but Precor certainly does. That said, it was weird of Peleton to overpay for a company that makes expensive fitness equipment purchased largely by gyms, who probably aren't purchasing much of anything these days.

What makes a good treadmill good? Genuinely curious as I've (in my limited experience) only ever seen them intermittently used a handful of times and then forgotten about. My dad used to buy up used ones for a pittance for their motors which he used for hobby projects, and most of the time they looked unused except for some dust or dry rotting.

I'm not sure what the parameters look like, but the deck needs to exhibit a combination of sturdiness and resilience underfoot to make for a comfortable running surface. Basically it should be springy but not too springy, and only in the normal direction. The frame needs to be solid and massive, again so that the whole thing doesn't move in unwanted directions while using it. The motor should be strong enough to operate smoothly at speeds up to at least 10 to 12 MPH, preferably more to allow for headroom.

Feature-wise, a good treadmill supports inclination of several degrees in the 'up' direction and at least a couple of degrees downward. Obviously the controls need to be responsive and easy to work with while running. And the whole thing needs to be designed without forehead-slapping engineering errors like the ability (much less the tendency) to pull objects beneath the deck. If the belt is exposed at the rear without a cover or guard of some kind, as was notoriously done by Peloton, that would be an example of how not to do it.

Basically, any treadmill that doesn't suck is going to end up weighing a few hundred pounds and costing several thousand dollars. It will be designed with gym use in mind, rather than primarily for home users.

I had a Precor C964 for several years, but sold it when I moved. I eventually replaced it with a similar model from the same company (TRM 425), and I'd say those two models are examples of very good commercial-grade treadmills that will last more or less forever in a home environment. Frankly I liked the older model a bit better, as it had simpler controls with less lag.

Re: Peloton – A call for action [pdf]

#270
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sad thing is that they own much less(how much?) than 58% of the stock. Just like FB, Google and many other companies. You can sell majority ownership and still hold the majority voting power due to dual(and triple) class shares. This is a perversion of common stocks and stockholders rights. In old days there would be such a thing as preferred stock which at least granted liquidation preferences to those buying pr…

> The sad thing is that they own much less(how much?) than 58% of the stock. The 'special' shares have 20 votes per share - could be as low as 3% of the company. It's hard to see why anyone would invest in a company where someone who was deemed incompetent to be CEO but still has a massive control of the board. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-02-08/peloto... I wonder if this will be a big issue for co…

Special shares having 20x the votes of plebeian shares is still better than the Snapchat situation.

As someone on HN quipped at the time: No, the shares have no voting power. They are Snapchat fun bucks basically.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13807515

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