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Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

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Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#261
post #111

As a low-ish level MSFT employee I laughed at this line: > The move promises to bring Amazon’s base pay more in line with other big tech companies, including Google, Facebook, Apple and Microsoft. As a ~62/63 (almost senior or senior) at Microsoft my peers at Facebook, Google, and Amazon can easily make literally twice as much compensation a year in salary, stock, and cash bonuses. Microsoft isn't even in the ballpar…

Considering Google/Facebook your “peers” is a common mistake people at MSFT make when they complain about comp. MSFT targets 67 percentile pay (which is actually above median, contrary to what everyone says), while GOOG/FB target > 95. They may be your competitors, but they are certainly not your peers (at least market-wise). Microsoft has managed to have great business results with 67 percentile SWE talent for a dec…

Google's official stance is they target 75 percentile pay, not > 95. So not too far off from MS. My guess is they use different peer companies.

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#263
post #145

Judging from what an insider in the HR org told me, we're going to be hearing a lot of stories like this going forward. Apparently, Amazon scale is so large and their attrition rates are so bad that in some markets, every potentially qualified candidate has already applied and failed an interview, or previously worked at Amazon and quit. As the adage goes, necessity is the mother of invention and Amazon seems to be a…

FWIW, Netflix basically has a slider, where you can take from 0% to 100% of your salary in options vs in cash. You get to decide once a year during a sort of "open enrollment" (like how you choose health care plans).

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#264
post #145

Judging from what an insider in the HR org told me, we're going to be hearing a lot of stories like this going forward. Apparently, Amazon scale is so large and their attrition rates are so bad that in some markets, every potentially qualified candidate has already applied and failed an interview, or previously worked at Amazon and quit. As the adage goes, necessity is the mother of invention and Amazon seems to be a…

I actually did some statistical analysis of what is supposed to be their hiring strategy and found this exact problem. They apparently use the strategy of always hiring above the mean (so new hires are better than the average employee). This does have some advantages, but I found that it ends up severely limiting growth when you take attrition into account. It would probably be a lot cheaper to change their hiring pr…

> It would probably be a lot cheaper to change their hiring practices to be less strict and reinvest some of that money in training.

Isn’t that what a boomerang promotion is?

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't match my experience. I guess it depends on the role but for engineers it's well known Amazon has been throwing large sign on bonuses to close the vesting gap for years. For instance I received an offer that was 160 base, 325 cash bonus and 5% of my RSUs for my first year, putting my TC at ~510k. Second year was a slightly smaller bonus, and 15% of my RSUs. Is it possible that when folks were voluntarily…

>For instance I received an offer that was 160 base, 325 cash bonus and 5% of my RSUs for my first year, putting my TC at ~510k. Second year was a slightly smaller bonus, and 15% of my RSUs. Jeebus man. What is it that you FAANG developers do that is so much more complex than what regular developers do? For reference: I do Angular and Python development. Is there like some open source project or code samples that giv…

> What is it that you FAANG developers do that is so much more complex than what regular developers do?

A meager defense follows. I've worked both "midwest design shop" and FAANG-adjacent jobs, from junior to staff to manager.

The main thing is supply and demand. The supply of engineers willing to work at a FAANG, in a region that FAANG is willing & able to support, and are willing and able to go through the technical hazing process called a "hiring panel," is very much short of demand. On the other side, profits per employee are phenomenal at scale, so making hires at these rates still makes sense financially.

But to answer your real question: it's less about the complexity of the code on a day to day basis, and more about the complexity of the system you have to work within, both technical and political, and the expectations of scale. A microservice system has both network and political boundaries to work through, whether making changes or RPC calls.

Then, while a small scale system might see a one-in-a-million event once per year, a large system will see it many times per hour, or even per minute. Managing simple things like changes to a database becomes a multi-step process, involving tools and stakeholders, instead of just a quick 2 minutes of scheduled downtime. Engineers need to be capable of thinking through those sorts of things. Stuff gets real weird at scale.

As a result, of both the above, engineers frequently find themselves doing highly specialized work, which is even harder to hire for. The guy who knows scaling properties of Postgres inside and out hasn't written production web code in a decade; his skills are almost worthless outside of FAANG-scale problems. Amazon has folks working for years on all sorts of niche network optimizations, because microseconds matter to them, but good luck transferring those skills back to fullstack web dev.

Last, a not insignificant number of engineers at FAANG are doing fantastically easy work on the same pay scale. Someone has to manage the wordpress (or whatever) installation for the docs site, or some backend process written in Django just for six important people. They often still get an engineer title and pay scale. So, it frequently is harder, but certainly not always.

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#266
post #212
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon is the only FAANG recruiter I ignore. Working 60 hour weeks just so I can get PIPed within 9 months of starting? No thanks.

Your mileage may very but I only worked 40 hours a week when I was there and I also got promoted in about a year and a half.

Why did you leave?

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's how labor markets work.

At some point, no amount of money is worth it. I can hardly imagine earning $350k a year. I've never earned a third of that anually. What I can imagine is a job that places such a demand on my time and attention that I don't have time for a life outside of it.

100%. I'm approaching the amounts that only a few years ago would have been in a fantasy land category, however there are issues with high stress levels, overtime and many others. I do understand many many people in my position would just pull through just because of money but eventually it wears out as a strong argument.

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#269
post #188
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When does the 15% come in to play? If your recruiter tells you $xxx in stock, they actually discount that and you get a grant for 15% less shares than current market price?

The signing bonus is some N shares of stock. The $xxx figures in their comp packages are inflated in years 2, 3, and 4 by optimistically valuing those shares.

Allegedly, if it doesn’t hit the 15% per year, you’ll get a top up refresh for the difference. Except you’re now stuck waiting another year for that to vest.

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#270
post #145

Judging from what an insider in the HR org told me, we're going to be hearing a lot of stories like this going forward. Apparently, Amazon scale is so large and their attrition rates are so bad that in some markets, every potentially qualified candidate has already applied and failed an interview, or previously worked at Amazon and quit. As the adage goes, necessity is the mother of invention and Amazon seems to be a…

> this move seems reminiscent of Netflix's pay structure, in the sense of offering a higher cash portion but lower equity.

Netflix gives you 100% of your total comp in whatever form you choose: all cash, all stock, or any combination in between. Also, Netflix's stock plan vests immediately-- they don't try to lock you in with 4-year vesting. They view stock compensation as something you've earned, so there are no strings attached.

It's well known that for top roles, Amazon's pay ranges are often well below their peer companies. You can see this on https://levels.fyi. So it makes sense that Amazon is trying to catch up.

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