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Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

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Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#261

Post by PeterisP »

travisjungroth wrote: post #14

I would have found it much more interesting and useful if the author had tried to sincerely answer or even ask the question of the title. Instead it’s just a complaint.

IMHO the author does answer the question without even noticing it.

At the end of the post, "The larger employers and job-hosting web sites need to get their acts together and work this out".

In a comment right below, the author says that this would be "giving job-seekers more control over their data".

Obviously, the larger employees and job-hosting web sites have no interest in allowing job-seekers more control over their data, quite the opposite, so they won't. And their active cooperation is absolutely required for such a data format to be adopted - so it won't be, at least not in a way that satisfies the author's wish of gaining more control over their data. That's it, it's that simple.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#262

Post by [deleted] »

Terretta wrote: post #134
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's very nice to think about but in the real world if people don't match some exact keywords they get thrown away. HR is looking for "node.js" but you wrote it like "nodejs"? Though luck pal, bye. HR wants a "computer scientist" but you have a degree in "computer science"? Same, automatically discarded I'm sure this happened somewhere at some point in time, but IMO it's becoming a myth blown out of proportion. I…

Resume “filtering” != resume “selecting” Tech companies doing recruiting of any meaningful volume are indeed generally using searches or matches of some kind at the start of the funnel.

[deleted]

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#263

Post by mcenedella »

moralestapia wrote: post #91
jeroenhd wrote: post #42

In my opinion, there shouldn't be. Documents like these shouldn't be automatically processed, they should be reviewed by humans. Reducing someone's life history to a list of educational institutions and employers feels robotic even for a software developer's mindset. I understand that there are real life problems because companies do use automated processing on applications, but that kind of behaviour shouldn't be en…

>Documents like these shouldn't be automatically processed, they should be reviewed by humans. That's very nice to think about but in the real world if people don't match some exact keywords they get thrown away. HR is looking for "node.js" but you wrote it like "nodejs"? Though luck pal, bye. HR wants a "computer scientist" but you have a degree in "computer science"? Same, automatically discarded. If anything, a st…

This is not really an issue. Most resume ATSs enable fuzzy searching on stems and similar keywords.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#264

Post by mcenedella »

jeroenhd wrote: post #42

In my opinion, there shouldn't be. Documents like these shouldn't be automatically processed, they should be reviewed by humans. Reducing someone's life history to a list of educational institutions and employers feels robotic even for a software developer's mindset. I understand that there are real life problems because companies do use automated processing on applications, but that kind of behaviour shouldn't be en…

A really great resume gets beyond the company names and educational institutions to demonstrate, with concrete numbers, how you improved things at your employer.

Reduced latency by 350 ms Increased engagement by 18% Reduced AWS spending by 23% Scaled from 13 to over 300 virtual machines

That sort of specificity and numerical quantification is what makes a great resume stand out.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#265

Post by mcenedella »

vanusa wrote: post #174
moralestapia wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Documents like these shouldn't be automatically processed, they should be reviewed by humans. That's very nice to think about but in the real world if people don't match some exact keywords they get thrown away. HR is looking for "node.js" but you wrote it like "nodejs"? Though luck pal, bye. HR wants a "computer scientist" but you have a degree in "computer science"? Same, automatically discarded. If anything, a st…

That's very nice to think about but in the real world if people don't match some exact keywords they get thrown away. This isn't the "real world" you're referring to here -- it's the fin-de-big-tech bubble world where everyone and their dog is not only sold, smack-down drunk on the idea that Algorithms and Data are the Solution to Your Problems. They aren't of course -- it's just a giant hornswoggle. This "world" nee…

These are true: - hiring managers that actually read resumes are golden to work for - a test of your awareness of the fact that, yes, in critical business communications at least -- this level of correctness does matter, and it matters a lot.

And for people who want to work in startup land, it’s an ideal.

Once a company gets past 40 or so people, though, ATS adoption increases. And 150+ employees without an ATS are rare. It’s just that the volume of candidates and interview processes that need to be managed require there be some software to manage the workflow.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#266

Post by mcenedella »

SantalBlush wrote: post #247
throwawayboise wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even back in the era when reading resumes and hiring was a manual human process, the standard advice was that resumes should be perfect. Nicely formatted, with no spelling or grammatical errors. You have ample time to think about the content, to proofread it yourself, and to have someone else proofread it. It's the first impression the potential employer has of you, no reason to not make an effort.

You're right, but I wonder how many resumes a job seeker submitted 30 years ago compared with today.

Probably 8 to 15, versus 80 to 100 now.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#267

Post by bruce511 »

kortilla wrote: post #183
vanusa wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's very nice to think about but in the real world if people don't match some exact keywords they get thrown away. This isn't the "real world" you're referring to here -- it's the fin-de-big-tech bubble world where everyone and their dog is not only sold, smack-down drunk on the idea that Algorithms and Data are the Solution to Your Problems. They aren't of course -- it's just a giant hornswoggle. This "world" nee…

> That's what resumes used to be, after all -- a kind of a take-home test where you really do have enough time (and perfect knowledge) to get everything 100 percent right. The only thing this filters for is people who have been looking for a job for a long time and/or are people focused on presentation instead of content, good luck with that. We’ve hired incredible engineers across that have had typos and major resum…

It's not about communication, or spelling, or grammar, it's about attention to detail.

I've seen my fair share of resumes and hired my fair share of people, and I've come to the conclusion that sloppy, error-ridden, CVs are a sign of a lack of attention to detail.

Here's a candidate with all the time in the world, and huge motivation, and they still can't complete this task correctly. It's not a good look.

I'm not saying a single error I'd a deal-breaker, but it puts the applicant on the back foot. No doubt many of my rejects are quality engineers, but engineering, and software development are all about details.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#268

Post by smsm42 »

There are many ways to create such format, and quite easily - using RDF plus some suitable ontology, etc. In fact, DOAC ontology is meant exactly for that, and I am sure there are 3-4 alternative ones too, and making a process to parse it would be relatively trivial. Why it's not done?

My guess it twofold. First, none of the resume sites is even remotely interested in data portability - they want you to use their site and their site alone. Why make it easier to go to the competitor? Second, despite all efforts, the usage of semantic web paradigms and all the automatic data processing that it enables is still minuscule outside of very niche communities - so most people aren't even aware of these solutions, and if nobody uses them, then nobody supports them, forming a vicious circle.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#269

Post by colejohnson66 »

vanusa wrote: post #220
threatofrain wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's "Node.js" with a dot. If you spell it "nodejs", that's a serious red flag and you shouldn't be surprised if it gets you automatically discarded -- even by a human reviewer. Yikes. “It’s not JavaScript it’s Ecmascript! What a RED FLAG.”

“It’s not JavaScript it’s Ecmascript! Not comparable.

I’d say they are. Who cares if I write “Nodejs” or “Node.js”? The reader knows exactly what I meant, and that’s what matters. Anything else is just needless pedantry.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#270

Post by mcenedella »

beachy wrote: post #115
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's very nice to think about but in the real world if people don't match some exact keywords they get thrown away. HR is looking for "node.js" but you wrote it like "nodejs"? Though luck pal, bye. HR wants a "computer scientist" but you have a degree in "computer science"? Same, automatically discarded I'm sure this happened somewhere at some point in time, but IMO it's becoming a myth blown out of proportion. I…

I co-founded an ATS company and I can say that we were never asked for, nor provided, any functionality to automatically screen candidates out based on keyword filters (though candidate answers to actual questions like "Do you 5 years experience with node.js?" are often used to automatically screen out). That said, I have heard this often enough that some people must do it. I can't imagine why though, as it takes onl…

I’ve interviewed the CEOs of many of the largest ATSs for Ladders News, and while there is no automated system, the tools do exist for a company to screen in this basis.

But none of the ATSs really collect great data on how many of their customers use them in their core processes. From observing actual, heavy duty recruiter and HR usage at Ladders, I suspect it is not very many.

These are people people after all, and they are not great at writing REGEX style queries to find only the precisely correct resumes they are looking for. You also need to remember that they are frequently working on novel searches each week, and wouldn’t have the confidence or the capability to craft such searches.

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