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President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

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Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#261

Post by dfxm12 »

bostonsre wrote: post #148
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #63

The scale of some Chinese people's commitment to support of their government's chosen narrative against facts is quite impressive / scary. Zealots make great cannon fodder, and the more cannon fodder the higher the chance of winning. It bodes poorly for Hong Kong, Taiwan, and any other country with a coastline along the South China Sea.

I personally haven't met anyone from China who has liked their government. I would assume there is some selection bias there and those that love their country are more likely to stay home, but would be really interested to talk to a true believer. I wouldn't be surprised if pressure was applied to those individuals to harass the one that spoke out against the party. The regime is brutal and most will toe the line whe…

Have you met them at a $30k+/yr university? I think that's an important piece of context here. The current Chinese system affords these students the ability to go to prestigious universities abroad. Things are going good for these students, so why wouldn't they like the government that grants them such privilege?

Folks who've immigrated for other reasons might have a different experience...

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#262

Post by JumpCrisscross »

sschueller wrote: post #248
Bayesian_bro wrote: post #215

This is just an example of the different ethics between China and America. America is very deontological in terms of FREEDOM. We love freedom above everything else. China is very consequentialist, they care about prosperity and success over everything else. I'm a pretty red blooded American (I drive a black smoke diesel truck and have enough firearms and ammo to make it pretty far in the apocalypse). I wonder what et…

I would compare Tiananmen Square with the Tulsa race massacre. How many Americans don't know about it? The time I spend in the US I had the feeling that you have more of a pseudo freedom than actual freedom. Everyone keeps saying how free they are and how great their country is yet you can't even drink an alcoholic beverage on the street without getting arrested. You go to a town festival and the people who want to d…

> I would compare Tiananmen Square with the Tulsa race massacre. How many Americans don't know about it?

This is a legitimate comparison between the CCP and the government of Oklahoma. It is a bad comparison in terms of responses. China fears and represses discussion of the Tiananmen Square massacre. In America, we discuss and debate and try to incrementally learn from our experience.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#263

Post by ecopoesis »

Bayesian_bro wrote: post #215

This is just an example of the different ethics between China and America. America is very deontological in terms of FREEDOM. We love freedom above everything else. China is very consequentialist, they care about prosperity and success over everything else. I'm a pretty red blooded American (I drive a black smoke diesel truck and have enough firearms and ammo to make it pretty far in the apocalypse). I wonder what et…

Whitewashing history to save the economy is certainly an interesting take.

Let's be clear: the reason the Chinese government wants to forget and move on from Tiananmen Square is because it threatens their power. The scariest thing for an autocrat is the people realizing that people hold the real power, and that all systems of government only exist because of the consent of the governed (implied in China's case, explicit in a democracies).

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#264

Post by noisy_boy »

anfilt wrote: post #176
wickedsickeune wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They ARE being watched abroad, if I'm not mistaken. They keep using WeChat to communicate with family/friends so...

The network effect is even worse when consider a lot of the alternative are banned in china. This makes it difficult basically impossible for Chinese abroad to communicate with their friends and family back in mainland using some alternative service.

Even imagining this is suffocating for someone who hasn't grown up in such a system.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#265

Post by merpnderp »

Bayesian_bro wrote: post #246
colinmhayes wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely disagree with your portrayal of consequentialism. Freedom absolutely provides utility, and allowing the government to disappear people who disagree with it is in no way a path to maximizing utility.

The American government "disappears" many people by locking them up in the criminal justice system. It's just for slightly different reasons.

Slightly different? Who is in prison for something "slightly different" than publicly accusing a government official of rape?

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#266

Post by someguydave »

stelonix wrote: post #143
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #63

The scale of some Chinese people's commitment to support of their government's chosen narrative against facts is quite impressive / scary. Zealots make great cannon fodder, and the more cannon fodder the higher the chance of winning. It bodes poorly for Hong Kong, Taiwan, and any other country with a coastline along the South China Sea.

You only have to look at this very website to see the same happening with US citizens' support for their government's chosen narrative. It bodes poorly for Puerto Rico, Cuba, Nicaragua and every other nation who had military juntas propped up by the USG and still suffer from american influence. Some will go to great lengths to foment hatred against whistleblowers, such as Assange or Snowden.

The US governemnt is inept and oppressive in its ways, but you are acting exactly as a hostile foreign agent would, stirring up strife and making exaggerated equivocations to create division.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#267

Post by vidarh »

IncRnd wrote: post #135
jaclaz wrote: post #83

Thanks. Only for the record, the message I get from EU: 451: Unavailable due to legal reasons We recognize you are attempting to access this website from a country belonging to the European Economic Area (EEA) including the EU which enforces the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and therefore access cannot be granted at this time. For any issues, contact help@purdueexponent.org or call 765-743-1111. Maybe it…

People of the EU might want to seriously reconsider the GDPR after seeing its affects such as this.

I'd rather seriously reconsider dealing with publishers of sites who consider it so important to trample all over our privacy rights that they'd rather block access than address the issues.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#268

Post by NikolaeVarius »

Bayesian_bro wrote: post #246
colinmhayes wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely disagree with your portrayal of consequentialism. Freedom absolutely provides utility, and allowing the government to disappear people who disagree with it is in no way a path to maximizing utility.

The American government "disappears" many people by locking them up in the criminal justice system. It's just for slightly different reasons.

You understand that when you disappear someone, it means that you have no idea what happened to them.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#269

Post by ashtonkem »

Bayesian_bro wrote: post #215

This is just an example of the different ethics between China and America. America is very deontological in terms of FREEDOM. We love freedom above everything else. China is very consequentialist, they care about prosperity and success over everything else. I'm a pretty red blooded American (I drive a black smoke diesel truck and have enough firearms and ammo to make it pretty far in the apocalypse). I wonder what et…

I think this is overly reductive, even if it’s largely pointed in the right direction.

For example, I think the best way to interpret the pandemic isn’t through ethical systems, it’s through state capacity and competence. America didn’t fumble the pandemic because of deontological ethics, it fumbled because the federal government was just straight up incompetent. Without the federal government coordinating the crisis, every state was left to try its own strategy, which really does not work during a pandemic.

Furthermore china might have eventually taken a “utilitarian” approach, but only after their first strategy of denial and repression failed. Like many authoritarian regimes China’s first interest is in their own stability, not prosperity per se. In cases where the prosperity of the citizens and the pride of the party are in conflict, China will clearly favor the latter over the former.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#270

Post by merpnderp »

yholio wrote: post #198

It's a very weak response from Purdue. Zhihao Kong was bullied and followed around on campus for commemorating the victims of the Tiananmen masacre. He was called a CIA agent by fellow Purdue students and was reported to the Chinese state, who attempted to silence him by forcefully leaning on his family in Hong Kong. The identities of the bullies is well known and the extent of abuse is borderline criminal. There sho…

It does at least set the stage to expel them if the behavior continues. Although it appears you are correct, this is way too little way too late.
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