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Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

reuters.com

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Re: Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

#261

Post by dave78 »

syshum wrote: post #72
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean I get that they were at work. Shift change or whatever does not seem to make that big a difference. What's not clear to me is whether any of the workers were coerced to come in (i.e. they said they didn't want to and Amazon said they must regardless). And whether Amazon knew or ought to know that this would unacceptably increase the risk of harm (i.e. that a tornado was in fact likely and that being at work wa…

>>I would also be interested in the standard practice at other workplaces in tornado alley For my Employer, in a high tornado state.. Watch: Monitor but no change in business Warning: Equipment is shut down, employee move to interior rooms approved as "shelters" (i.e no windows, normally slightly reinforced, etc), until the warning is cleared, or confirmation of the tornado's path as no chance of hitting facility. I…

I also live in a tornado-prone state and agree with all of this. In my experience, nothing at all shuts down in the event of a tornado watch - everything is business as usual (schools, businesses, retail, etc.). Outdoor activities might be cancelled, but even that wouldn't be a given. As said, tornado warnings are short-lived and you just shelter in place wherever you happen to be. I've been crammed in a bathroom with 30-40 other people at my cushy 9-5 office job many times due to tornado warnings. The thought has never even crossed my mind about not going into work during a tornado watch.

It's mind-boggling how many people are spouting away here who clearly have no understanding of how tornados work. Didn't anyone ever watch Twister?

Re: Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

#262

Post by t-writescode »

dwighttk wrote: post #244
dylan604 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The fall of TV You mean in your daily in-take of media? Local TV stations are required to broadcast weather. It's actually part of their licensing. So if you're not in the habit of turning on the local station because of crappy programming (like me), then you should at least be willing to find a local station during weather. Even if regular programming is on, they will break in when requested by the NWS. Local radio…

> Local TV stations are required to broadcast weather. It's actually part of their licensing. So if you're not in the habit of turning on the local station because of crappy programming (like me), then you should at least be willing to find a local station during weather On what? I don’t have a tuner

Get an emergency weather radio. I used to have one in the Midwest. I imagine they still work, right?

Re: Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

#263

Post by 1123581321 »

cbfrench wrote: post #253
1123581321 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a reason, which is that the new criteria for warning trains people to not take them seriously as they don't necessarily mean acute danger from tornado anymore. As our radar technology has advanced, it's really a shame that warnings are less indicative of a tornado than they were a decade ago. A better solution would be three categories of warning (watch, new possibly fake warning, and the old real warning) a…

The general public can’t grasp the distinction between watches and warnings, and your solution is to divide warnings into subcategories?

My proposed solution is to continue to reserve the word warning for its old use, to keep people safe by preventing the cry-wolf effect and to introduce an intermediate term to appease the people who want to ring the alarm more often and communicate with locals who want more information.

I agree that the older, simpler watch and warning system was better, if that's what you're saying.

Re: Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

#264

Post by jfrunyon »

zippergz wrote: post #258
jfrunyon wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tornadoes aren't hurricanes... There aren't hours and days of advanced notice. Only a few minutes. You can't shut down for every thunder storm on the astronomical chance it'll turn into a tornado and head in your direction. Most thunderstorms don't include tornado alerts from the NWS. They absolutely can (and should) shut down when there are severe weather, but because they care more about profit than about their e…

I've lived in tornado country almost all of my life and I'm not aware of any business that shuts down due to a tornado watch. They'd be shutting down all the time. By the time the watch becomes a warning, it's too late. People need to shelter, not be leaving the facility to go home.

> People need to shelter, not be leaving the facility to go home.

Perhaps you should re-read my comment.

> They absolutely can (and should) shut down

PS I live in tornado alley and any time there was any kind of watch, my school enacted their severe weather plan. I am well aware that the vast majority of businesses don't even have a severe weather plan. That has absolutely no bearing on whether or not they should.

Re: Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

#265

Post by Sebguer »

camhart wrote: post #205
romwell wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Were there no warnings for the severe weather storm that would have prevented people coming in to work or allowed them to leave work early? There were warnings. Warnings that skipping work would get one fired[1]. And since the warehouse was not closed that day, the warning was: clock in on time, or else, weather be damned. >When I was working in the office... Well there's a difference between how office employees ar…

Your article is over a month old...

Do you think Amazon has changed its labor practices in the last month? The OP's point is that warehouse employees don't have the option to not show up.

Re: Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

#266

Post by bobthepanda »

mbreese wrote: post #259
dwighttk wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Local TV stations are required to broadcast weather. It's actually part of their licensing. So if you're not in the habit of turning on the local station because of crappy programming (like me), then you should at least be willing to find a local station during weather On what? I don’t have a tuner

Honestly. You know exactly you’d need to watch TV (a tuner). Or more accurately, if you have a TV, you really just need an antenna. If you don’t have a TV, then many (most?) local TV stations have a website with streaming video. This is especially true for news and weather. And if that all fails, you can get a network tuner/dvr that will stream broadcast TV to an app. There are many options to get local TV/weather. L…

Smartphones are also plugged into emergency service broadcasts. I've received a few for severe weather in my area.

Re: Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

#267

Post by cbfrench »

JonathonW wrote: post #260
1123581321 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a reason, which is that the new criteria for warning trains people to not take them seriously as they don't necessarily mean acute danger from tornado anymore. As our radar technology has advanced, it's really a shame that warnings are less indicative of a tornado than they were a decade ago. A better solution would be three categories of warning (watch, new possibly fake warning, and the old real warning) a…

The NWS does distinguish between warnings for radar-indicated tornadoes and for confirmed tornadoes on the ground (usually confirmed by spotters), but you have to read the warning text to tell (you'll see phrasing like "particularly dangerous situation" and "confirmed tornado" in the warning when they're working based on something that's been visually seen versus radar indicated). For an example of what this looks li…

Also worth noting that “more frequently” for any given location is likely somewhere on the order of 1-2 warnings per year maximum.

Re: Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

#268

Post by 1123581321 »

JonathonW wrote: post #260
1123581321 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a reason, which is that the new criteria for warning trains people to not take them seriously as they don't necessarily mean acute danger from tornado anymore. As our radar technology has advanced, it's really a shame that warnings are less indicative of a tornado than they were a decade ago. A better solution would be three categories of warning (watch, new possibly fake warning, and the old real warning) a…

The NWS does distinguish between warnings for radar-indicated tornadoes and for confirmed tornadoes on the ground (usually confirmed by spotters), but you have to read the warning text to tell (you'll see phrasing like "particularly dangerous situation" and "confirmed tornado" in the warning when they're working based on something that's been visually seen versus radar indicated). For an example of what this looks li…

Excellent information; thank you. Communicating all this to the public is a significant challenge. You can't ask people to take shelter more often, and you also can't ask them to read more detailed reports. Compliance rate saves lives, for better or worse.

Re: Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

#269

Post by dhosek »

I find it interesting that no one seems to be talking about the fact that we're having deadly tornadoes in December. This is not normal, especially if this was a multiple tornado event, but even one really big one would be way out of the ordinary. Maybe it's my northern Illinois upbringing, but tornadoes this time of year seems way unlikely.

Re: Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

#270

Post by dave78 »

jfrunyon wrote: post #250
gammarator wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

St. Louis gets tornadoes, but it is not in tornado alley.

It absolutely is. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Tornado_...

That map is not showing "tornado alley", this one is (from the same Wikipedia article):

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/43/To...

Note that there's no formal definition, but most people would not consider Missouri/Illinois to be "in" tornado alley, despite regular tornadic activity.

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