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Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

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Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#261

Post by joelbluminator »

whimsicalism wrote: post #238
BeetleB wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mandela was offered an early release if he renounced violence. He did not take that offer. I don't know about after his release, but for most of his life he believed in achieving his aims with violence, if need be. As for the violence the ANC perpetrated: It would definitely be considered terrorism today.

Super disingenuous in my view to have some purity test around renouncing violence against a white supremacist state. Is political violence not justified in that context? Were violent European revolutions against their monarchs all terroristic? Honestly surprised to see so many apartheid apologists in these replies.

Was the violence always against the state or was it also against innocent civilians? Not really the same thing.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#262

Post by helge9210 »

yonixw wrote: post #244
helge9210 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They don't. Sending a Police Riot control unit against a group of people throwing stones and molotovs does not qualify as being terrorized. But sending an army unit with an order "break the village" which results in shock grenades being dropped into a cradle with the baby inside does qualify them as being terrorized. Note: I'm Israeli and was working with people who got those orders and carried them out during thei…

1) You are making an hypothetical based on orders. Which amount to nothing. 2) Searching google for "shock grenades on a girl israel" will show you first a Jewish Ultra-Orthodox girl getting hit around a corona protest last year: https://twitter.com/almogbenzikri/status/1251004227956150273 So this is a police brutality issue, not a Palestine issue. 3) Based on your previous comments- "Hamas is an ally of Israel in Ga…

> 1) You are making an hypothetical based on orders. Which amount to nothing.

No, my colleague actually spent time in jail for military crimes.

> 2) Searching google for

You get what you search for.

> you are just out of the loop

Or, what is more probable, you are just pushing Hasbara.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#263

Post by lr4444lr »

What is this group?

Front Line Defenders was founded in Dublin in 2001 with the specific aim of protecting human rights defenders at risk (HRDs), people who work, non-violently, for any or all of the rights enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR). Front Line Defenders addresses the protection needs identified by HRDs themselves.

How do they identify and vet a qualifying "Human Rights Defender"? Do they have a membership roster?

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#264

Post by GordonS »

ashtonkem wrote: post #144
bawolff wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how people can think Israel mass bombed gaza. Israel has one of the largest militaries in the world. If they decided to mass bomb somewhere, it wouldn't be a place anymore. Its not the 1800s. A mass bombing is not something anyone walks away from in the modern world.

Gaza City has a higher density than NYC (34k per sq mi vs. 29k). Now imagine trying to run an anti-mafia campaign using only air power.

Maybe don't do that then? If someone knowingly bombs areas densely packed with civilians, then they are committing war crimes at best, terrorism at worst.

It's incredibly difficult to have sympathy with Israel when their politicians and military behave with such little regard for human rights and human life - I really wish they'd take the moral high ground and just fucking stop the evictions, abductions, torture, beatings and killing.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#265

Post by worik »

jjcon wrote: post #236
asadlionpk wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insane that Apple allows this!

Do you really want Apple to ban more apps based on political actions? The HN can be really regressive sometimes =/

Would it be OK to have an app like that that coordinated support for spamming social networks for...

* Iran. Defend their actions

* North Korea Every bodies favourite pariah state

* Drugs Drugs are good, we all know that. Tell the world...

* The subjectification of women - uppity sheilas are a problem the world over

* COVID vaccine - unite the tribes against this poison!

Where are the limits?

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#266

Post by worik »

asadlionpk wrote: post #251
jjcon wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really want Apple to ban more apps based on political actions? The HN can be really regressive sometimes =/

Depends on what you call political action. If Talibans published a similar app would Apple allow it? Why is Israel allowed to have an app to censor their victims? That’s bias.

That's politics!

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#267

Post by pythonlion »

ashtonkem wrote: post #185
LegitShady wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because it would compromise means and methods

Tough. The logical consequence of “we can’t show you the proof” is “okay, I don’t believe that you have any”. After all, you would not believe my assertions about fantastical achievements without evidence, and the consequences of that hypothetical are much lower than the state saying it should be able to kill people in the name of “counter terrorism”. More succinctly; “it would compromise means and methods” is a phen…

countries do hit jobs rarely and when they do its clear this person was involved 100% of the time. That's the only case people get killed in the name of “counter terrorism”. the discussion was about banning an organization not a person.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#268

Post by skinkestek »

VictorPath wrote: post #134
skinkestek wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A more instructive question might be (warning: this is meant to get people thinking, but at least I'll be straight forward about it): Why does nobody else follow up on the UN resolution from 1948? (Just like in the case of India / Pakistan UN decided to divide the area into two parts, one for Jews, one for Arabs.) I can also ask: why does so few other support the single somewhat functioning democracy in the region? T…

> I can also ask: why does so few other support the single somewhat functioning democracy in the region? In the West Bank, Palestinians are not allowed to form an army, have control over borders, or even control of travel around the West Bank. So they are made to nit have their own country (which Israel opposes) but to be part of Israel. So can they vote for Knesset candidates? No. (Yet an orthodox Jew from Brooklyn…

> > I can also ask: why does so few other support the single somewhat functioning democracy in the region?

> In the West Bank, Palestinians are not allowed to form an army, have control over borders, or even control of travel around the West Bank.

Judea and Samaria (the "West Bank") isn't officially part of Israel as far as I understand. Naturally they don't have voting rights in Israel.

The democracy inside Israel is as I said above somewhat functioning, at least compared to the rest of the region.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#269

Post by skinkestek »

chuckee wrote: post #260
skinkestek wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel has a significant presence there as has probably a number of other American companies and since they stay there despite the logistic and PR issues there must be some advantages. A whole lot of other products and tech originate in Israel it seems, so much that every boycott Israel campaign only get so far before everyone figure out it isn't worth the trouble. Besides Israel has been invaluable in getting intelli…

> Intel has a significant presence there That's a bit tail wagging the dog, isn't it? Intel has no trouble getting engineers to immigrate to the US when it comes to other countries. > boycott Israel There's a lot of room between "unquestioning military support" and "boycott".

> Intel has no trouble getting engineers to immigrate to the US when it comes to other countries.

For some reason Intel keep a significant presence in Israel. I'm not an Israeli and not an Intel employee so I can only guess that they find it beneficial somehow.

> There's a lot of room between "unquestioning military support" and "boycott".

Yes?

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#270

Post by throwaway879080 »

pthread_t wrote: post #217
asadlionpk wrote: post #187

I feel like many pro-Israel commentators here are a coordinated low quality effort to derail conversation using “tactics”. I feel this happens on the daily bases online. I remember reading about it; Israel’s strategy to train their online citizens to do this.

There's an app for that: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/act-il/id1141853455

Oh wow, thanks for this

we must defend Israel against existential threat, online and offline

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